Archers versus Mages

ladydias

Astellian
Nov 16, 2019
24
5
3
So I started the game with an archer and leveled it up to 50 and I kind of feel like my PvE DPS is low, like my stats scaled less with my equipment the higher my level got (it started once I hit the 30s). I also kind of feel like I'm crippled a bit by having my harder hitting moves locked to having CC on a mob (something that is completely useless when dealing with bosses). I also feel like archer DOTs are super weak.

On the flip side, I just started leveling a mage and, even at low levels, it seems to flow a lot smoother than my archer does despite the disparity in levels. I can't shake the feeling that significantly more TLC was given to mages than archers.

Are there any suggestions for a PvE focused player who wants to enjoy her archer more regarding stats to spec into to make the class play better? Is there any way to get around the fact that our hardest hitting moves are tied to inconsistent CC that bosses are also immune to. I started off focusing on Dex/Str, but should I change that now that I am at level 50?
 
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ChromasIV

Astellian
May 24, 2019
79
60
18
Sadly it's not.

Mages are way stronger in DPS in all aspects.
Assassin's technically outdps an archer but require evasion and constant moving.

Archer dps lacks in all aspects in the game, but yet i still play one. Why? Cause I'm way to invested to switch and pray.
 
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ladydias

Astellian
Nov 16, 2019
24
5
3
Pity then as I love my archer, but I just wish it were better designed. Hopefully they improve the class as time goes on. On the flip side, I am leveling my astels on both characters pretty well courtesy of the 2-star card Christmas event so I don't feel too bad about shelving my archer for a bit.
 
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Gioppi

Astellian
Sep 9, 2019
70
65
18
21
Wait why there's a convo saying that the most unbalanced class in astellia is weak? We only have slightly less dmg in pve and that's it, in pvp we are a literal beast. Also in pve if you use hawkeye you almost have the same dps of an assassin... #triplearrow
 
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ladydias

Astellian
Nov 16, 2019
24
5
3
Wait why there's a convo saying that the most unbalanced class in astellia is weak? We only have slightly less dmg in pve and that's it, in pvp we are a literal beast. Also in pve if you use hawkeye you almost have the same dps of an assassin... #triplearrow
Not talking about PvP but about PvE and the fact that my wind-up shots are gimped against bosses because they are immune to CC. I am a fresh level 50 but even before I hit that, it felt like my class was struggling with consistent damage once I got to my late 30s. Basically, I'm saying the class feels like it has mechanical problems in the space between level 35-50 without the advanced class (where I am) and I'm not sure how the stats are scaling with the class. I started this thread to ask if there were a way to smooth those problems out as I am working toward unlocking my advanced class.

If archer were designed as a PvP class first I get it, but it does have problems in PvE by making your strongest attacks dependent on un-landable CC when fighting bosses (solo instances from Temple of Blessings on became frustrating because my DPS was handicapped).
 

Zwiebel

Astellian
Jul 4, 2019
409
329
63
Archer is the only class with 2 meaningful dps specs actually working (Ranger and Hawkeye both have amazing singletarget dps).
Yes, AoE dps is nothing compared to meteor burst (actually when you compare aoe damage we deal over 1 minute then archer is a lot closer to mages than you think, as mages only have big AoE burst but no sustainable AoE Dps), but the single target damage easily outclasses a mage.

Also archers are the most mobile DPSer, being able to dish out almost full DPS while strafing sideways through boss AOEs while both mages and assassins constantly have to cancel their combos and casts to move.

Its not hard to out dps a mage on bosses as an archer. It is the default.
 
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ladydias

Astellian
Nov 16, 2019
24
5
3
Archer is the only class with 2 meaningful dps specs actually working (Ranger and Hawkeye both have amazing singletarget dps).
Yes, AoE dps is nothing compared to meteor burst (actually when you compare aoe damage we deal over 1 minute then archer is a lot closer to mages than you think, as mages only have big AoE burst but no sustainable AoE Dps), but the single target damage easily outclasses a mage.

Also archers are the most mobile DPSer, being able to dish out almost full DPS while strafing sideways through boss AOEs while both mages and assassins constantly have to cancel their combos and casts to move.

Its not hard to out dps a mage on bosses as an archer. It is the default.
Please re-read what I said. You are making my point for me. Why is archer DPS dependent on having the advanced class unlocked and leveled? Because without the advanced class, the strongest moves we have available to us are gimped by either having to land crowd control (impossible on bosses) or going into sniper mode (also not particularly useful on bosses). It might not be so much a problem when grouped but solo instances are painful. The class needs to flow better before you get the advanced class so that the advanced class feels like an actual advancement instead of a fix for built-in problems. Does that make sense?

I compare the class to mages because even if you take the DPS out of it, the mage's moves flow together more smoothly.
 
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Gioppi

Astellian
Sep 9, 2019
70
65
18
21
i don t find those problem in pve tho, even without classes archers have good dmg, just debuff and burn the enemy then use dmg skill and so go on, with the right skill usage and combo u will always have something to cast and the gameplay is so funny because in all of this you can move freely because archers can cast while moving. For archers is also super easy to cast co op ability with astels because we are not bound to a certain combo. Also most archers think that in pve falcon arrow and phoenix are the main dps ability but that s not true, you need to focus on using (in the case u are not in an advanced class) double arrow strong bow spiral arrow bola arrow (to debuff) burst arrow or the aoe to set fire the enemy and then rapid shot and eagle shot. Strog bow is very useful for us, remember to use it.
 
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ladydias

Astellian
Nov 16, 2019
24
5
3
i don t find those problem in pve tho, even without classes archers have good dmg, just debuff and burn the enemy then use dmg skill and so go on, with the right skill usage and combo u will always have something to cast and the gameplay is so funny because in all of this you can move freely because archers can cast while moving. For archers is also super easy to cast co op ability with astels because we are not bound to a certain combo. Also most archers think that in pve falcon arrow and phoenix are the main dps ability but that s not true, you need to focus on using (in the case u are not in an advanced class) double arrow strong bow spiral arrow bola arrow (to debuff) burst arrow or the aoe to set fire the enemy and then rapid shot and eagle shot. Strog bow is very useful for us, remember to use it.
Falcon arrow and Phoenix are nukes and I use them as such. I'm asking why you can use a nuke ability effectively on trash mobs and not on a boss. I don't want to one-shot a boss but I would like to take more off of their hp bar instead of just circling them and hoping they die first by pressing the same 3-4 buttons.

Also, I do use all of the moves you just mentioned but I just don't find the class to flow well. You don't think it's just a bit nonsensical that you have a single buff that buffs one ability (if the tool tip is incorrect and I'm missing something please let me know) in the case of strong bow and spiral arrow? Would it not make sense to add the extra arrow in as we put points into spiral arrow? Also, why is our bleed so weak if the class is designed to not use its nukes the moment a high HP mob appears and instead kite the enemy while pelting it with smaller shots?

I'm not saying the class can't be fun (I quite like it). I'm saying it needs better synergy between its skills as you level and that I think it scales weirdly with stats. If I take out the word DPS, does that better explain what I am driving at?
 

Falconer_Joanna

Astellian
Sep 28, 2019
161
100
43
First off I would list skill points for an archer in this order:

AGI=DEX>STR>CON

You really don't want just hits, but critical hits, I always consider the Assassin to be more DPS based, and Archers to be about spike damage. Obviously Falcon Arrow works better if cast after Rising Moon, and Phoenix Claw works better after Hammer Shot.

Additionally Rapid Shot should follow Bola Arrow, and Eagle Shot should follow Barbed Arrow (while bosses can't be knocked down or stunned, they can be slowed, or made to bleed, and all those except Barbed Arrow can be cast while moving. Admittedly, sniper, which really helps our damage does tend to immobilize us, does gimp us a bit, but proper use of Astels means you'll never pull aggro in PvE, so there has to be a downside. Not to mention, our level 50 classes are all good. Triple Arrow (after Strong Bow) is extremely good on single targets, Arrow Rain clears out mobs beautifully, and the Ranger can reach evasion/Crit levels some other classes only dream about.

Archer is all about skill combinations, I almost never cast a skill as a solo act, unless it's a filler. While that might discourage you, remember almost all your skills cast instantly and you don't have to set up burns/blades/whatever to hit your big damage spells.

Archers can easily hold their own against bosses, Warriors and Scholars only wish they could kill as quickly. Assassins, have to always setup blades and move behind for their big damage. Mages (atm) are probably a bit OP in PvE, but that doesn't make Archers bad.
 
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ladydias

Astellian
Nov 16, 2019
24
5
3
First off I would list skill points for an archer in this order:

AGI=DEX>STR>CON

You really don't want just hits, but critical hits, I always consider the Assassin to be more DPS based, and Archers to be about spike damage. Obviously Falcon Arrow works better if cast after Rising Moon, and Phoenix Claw works better after Hammer Shot.

Additionally Rapid Shot should follow Bola Arrow, and Eagle Shot should follow Barbed Arrow (while bosses can't be knocked down or stunned, they can be slowed, or made to bleed, and all those except Barbed Arrow can be cast while moving. Admittedly, sniper, which really helps our damage does tend to immobilize us, does gimp us a bit, but proper use of Astels means you'll never pull aggro in PvE, so there has to be a downside. Not to mention, our level 50 classes are all good. Triple Arrow (after Strong Bow) is extremely good on single targets, Arrow Rain clears out mobs beautifully, and the Ranger can reach evasion/Crit levels some other classes only dream about.

Archer is all about skill combinations, I almost never cast a skill as a solo act, unless it's a filler. While that might discourage you, remember almost all your skills cast instantly and you don't have to set up burns/blades/whatever to hit your big damage spells.

Archers can easily hold their own against bosses, Warriors and Scholars only wish they could kill as quickly. Assassins, have to always setup blades and move behind for their big damage. Mages (atm) are probably a bit OP in PvE, but that doesn't make Archers bad.
I'll admit that I haven't played around with my AGI stat as much as I have DEX and STR so perhaps that will help. I already have my shots lined up with the debuffs that increase their damage as you described. At this point, I've collected pretty much every astel besides Ignagon. Do you have any suggestions for deck effects to aim for that would help my gameplay?

Thank you for taking the time to give me suggestions on my stats instead of just saying 'everything's fine, archers are overpowered.'
 
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Falconer_Joanna

Astellian
Sep 28, 2019
161
100
43
I'll admit that I haven't played around with my AGI stat as much as I have DEX and STR so perhaps that will help. I already have my shots lined up with the debuffs that increase their damage as you described. At this point, I've collected pretty much every astel besides Ignagon. Do you have any suggestions for deck effects to aim for that would help my gameplay?

Thank you for taking the time to give me suggestions on my stats instead of just saying 'everything's fine, archers are overpowered.'
To get deck effects to work, you must work on your Astels, which means improving your astels must be as important (maybe even more important) than pursuing better gear. People, jump right into legendary dungeons. I try to balance this with improving individual astels by running the normal dungeons. I currently have six 7 star Astels (really 2 of then would have 8 if not for the cap), and will have my seventh most likely this weekend. I did this by focusing on then exclusively.

I bring that up, as they gave me quite a few options for Deck Effects, which I have played quite a bit with. My favorites are: Mana Regeneration (I always have this up for PvE), Acrobatics (this is up because of my Astel choices), and Seeker (which took quite a while to obtain). I always have Technician up when trying to upgrade my gear. I played around with Swift, Spirited Summoner, Leader (which is useless after all your astels reach level 50), Gathering Prodigy (when raising my gathering skill) and Master Artisan.

For PVE, I would also closely look at what Astel's you're using. You should have one tank Astel and one Healer Astel that are your main "go to", you should give then your best (and very specific star jewels) AND should liberally use their special skills. As an Archer, you provide the main source of damage, So I treat damage Astels as assistance, rather than primary. The main ones I chose are Virgo and Miho. With 4 dungeons that drop Virgo and two different Astel packs that give her, she's pretty easy to advance. Miho was more of a chore. While 2 dungeons drop her, one (Sansara) drops her far more often than the other. But it's worth it, her heals are very good.

So my 'typical' astel deck that I use in PvE is: Virgo, Archer (or Aquarius), Miho, Aida, Sirius, Unicorn, Seika and Ursa. For a typical dungeon run (solo), I run with Aida until I get to the bosses, then Virgo comes out. I keep her targeted and bring out Miho as needed, using Miho's special heal (divine hug) as needed. Also by keeping Virgo targeted, if you use Evasive Arrow or Run - the continuous heal goes to Virgo. I use Archer occasionally in groups, as his buff is very nice, but you could mix in whoever you want there really (Archer is needed for mana regen). Also I could use Aquarius there as her buff is really good for groups and she also gives mana regen.

Lastly, yes, AGI is as important and perhaps a bit more important than DEX. AGI increases your chance to land a critical hit AND your evasion, I wish I could put more than just 5 crystals there. Once I manufacture enough, I am planning on using legendary cyrstals on that before DEX.

Hope that helps.
 
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ladydias

Astellian
Nov 16, 2019
24
5
3
To get deck effects to work, you must work on your Astels, which means improving your astels must be as important (maybe even more important) than pursuing better gear. People, jump right into legendary dungeons. I try to balance this with improving individual astels by running the normal dungeons. I currently have six 7 star Astels (really 2 of then would have 8 if not for the cap), and will have my seventh most likely this weekend. I did this by focusing on then exclusively.

I bring that up, as they gave me quite a few options for Deck Effects, which I have played quite a bit with. My favorites are: Mana Regeneration (I always have this up for PvE), Acrobatics (this is up because of my Astel choices), and Seeker (which took quite a while to obtain). I always have Technician up when trying to upgrade my gear. I played around with Swift, Spirited Summoner, Leader (which is useless after all your astels reach level 50), Gathering Prodigy (when raising my gathering skill) and Master Artisan.

For PVE, I would also closely look at what Astel's you're using. You should have one tank Astel and one Healer Astel that are your main "go to", you should give then your best (and very specific star jewels) AND should liberally use their special skills. As an Archer, you provide the main source of damage, So I treat damage Astels as assistance, rather than primary. The main ones I chose are Virgo and Miho. With 4 dungeons that drop Virgo and two different Astel packs that give her, she's pretty easy to advance. Miho was more of a chore. While 2 dungeons drop her, one (Sansara) drops her far more often than the other. But it's worth it, her heals are very good.

So my 'typical' astel deck that I use in PvE is: Virgo, Archer (or Aquarius), Miho, Aida, Sirius, Unicorn, Seika and Ursa. For a typical dungeon run (solo), I run with Aida until I get to the bosses, then Virgo comes out. I keep her targeted and bring out Miho as needed, using Miho's special heal (divine hug) as needed. Also by keeping Virgo targeted, if you use Evasive Arrow or Run - the continuous heal goes to Virgo. I use Archer occasionally in groups, as his buff is very nice, but you could mix in whoever you want there really (Archer is needed for mana regen). Also I could use Aquarius there as her buff is really good for groups and she also gives mana regen.

Lastly, yes, AGI is as important and perhaps a bit more important than DEX. AGI increases your chance to land a critical hit AND your evasion, I wish I could put more than just 5 crystals there. Once I manufacture enough, I am planning on using legendary cyrstals on that before DEX.

Hope that helps.
Thank you so much. Trust me, this is an immense help.
 

ladydias

Astellian
Nov 16, 2019
24
5
3
You can find all the guides in the forum about stats and combo.
The guide I saw was only for the beginning of the game and it said nothing about the importance of AGI for archers. If I've overlooked a specific guide that you've found useful, I welcome a link. The unfortunate thing about this game being so niche is that info is a bit scattered. However, thanks for your input. I know it sounds like I'm complaining but I seriously do want to enjoy archer more as I really do like this game.