Astellia lacks a sense of accomplishment

ShadowsDesire

Astellian
Jul 22, 2019
16
27
13
I don't know if I'm the only one experiencing this but seriously rewards for our effort are very underwhelming. Pretty much everything is a grindfest (makes sense its a korean game) which Isn't the problem but the lack of being rewarded for doing that grind just doesn't really feel like you have made any progress or achieved anything. To Elaborate on my opinion:

- Legendary Dungeons: Originally gave less than they do now (thanks for the upped drop rate) but even now its still heavily RNG dependant for the stat rolls. "Sweet a Legendary bracelet drop. Ohh it's a WIL STR INT with low rolls" which is pretty much unsellable and unusable so all you can really do is break it down for enhancement crystals and try another run. Another thing would be trying to star the Astels you want to. 7* is the highest we can get now (understandable why you did it but still not cool to give us only like 12 hrs warning) but its still RNG which Astel you get and most times will give you one you don't need/want to increase anymore.

- Colosseum: I honestly don't think i need to say anything here but, It's a waste of time just AFK the daily with your Astels and you still get an S rank but still absolutely nothing to show for it. The higher difficulties should be harder and more rewarding than they are since rare Atra crystals aren't really useful once you've done a few legendary dungeons.

- Achievements: I don't know who put the rewards for these in but they are probably the most awful rewards I've seen in an achievement system in an MMO... and that includes the ones that don't give you any rewards. I'd rather unlock an achievement and feel happy and fulfilled that I finally unlocked it rather than unlock one then be handed a pitiful reward which feels like a kick in the nuts for the hard work. "Oh you killed all the world bosses here's 12 Zender" "Whats that you cleared a high difficulty dungeon here's 5k Asper" Don't get me wrong there are a couple of good rewards like the Astel card packs but they are few and far between. Not to mention some achievements already in game are IMPOSSIBLE to obtain for example the 36 Avalon achievements.

An MMO is really only as good as its endgame. The sense of accomplishment from completing a long grind for a decent reward is one of the key things that keeps players invested in an MMO. To be honest at this point when T2 items are finally able to be fused it's not really going to be a reaction like "WOO YES FINALLY ACHIEVED A T2 ITEM GOD THAT WAS DIFFICULT" it would be more along the lines of "Awesome I finally finished grinding and spending 20+ mil Asper to make a T2 items that's actually useful for my character". On that note Asper is a pain to get it large amounts without lucking out on a good RNG legendary to sell. We need more ways to get Asper.

Not sure how many people will agree with me but that's my opinion on the matter.
 

Evo

Astellian
May 24, 2019
152
48
28
- Legendary Dungeons: Originally gave less than they do now (thanks for the upped drop rate) but even now its still heavily RNG dependant for the stat rolls. "Sweet a Legendary bracelet drop. Ohh it's a WIL STR INT with low rolls" which is pretty much unsellable and unusable so all you can really do is break it down for enhancement crystals and try another run. Another thing would be trying to star the Astels you want to. 7* is the highest we can get now (understandable why you did it but still not cool to give us only like 12 hrs warning) but its still RNG which Astel you get and most times will give you one you don't need/want to increase anymore.
This is nothing we need to complain about. They just want to give us something to do before they release T2 and T3 gears.

- Colosseum: I honestly don't think i need to say anything here but, It's a waste of time just AFK the daily with your Astels and you still get an S rank but still absolutely nothing to show for it. The higher difficulties should be harder and more rewarding than they are since rare Atra crystals aren't really useful once you've done a few legendary dungeons.
Just delete this content. It is boring with stupid reward. I only do it for weekly quest

- Achievements: I don't know who put the rewards for these in but they are probably the most awful rewards I've seen in an achievement system in an MMO... and that includes the ones that don't give you any rewards. I'd rather unlock an achievement and feel happy and fulfilled that I finally unlocked it rather than unlock one then be handed a pitiful reward which feels like a kick in the nuts for the hard work. "Oh you killed all the world bosses here's 12 Zender" "Whats that you cleared a high difficulty dungeon here's 5k Asper" Don't get me wrong there are a couple of good rewards like the Astel card packs but they are few and far between. Not to mention some achievements already in game are IMPOSSIBLE to obtain for example the 36 Avalon achievements.
Just forget the 36 exp, 12 zender and 10000 asper. You have a chance to win 5 star guardian on a fresh new character within 15min. Just dismantle 100 rings then drink 100 potions. You can keep trying until you get one. It definitely worth the time. I have been playing for more than a month and my highest guardian is 3 star.
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Honestly I just need a P2W item that can let me 1 shot everybody in Avalon, so i won't need to grind and deal with RNG anymore
 
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Terra

Astellian
Sep 20, 2019
639
325
63
Just forget the 36 exp, 12 zender and 10000 asper. You have a chance to win 5 star guardian on a fresh new character within 15min.
you don't,
they nerfed the astel packs from 1 to 5 stars down into 1 to 3 stars [with less rng involved ... how much less ... god knows]

so ... even within these acchievements ...
you first have the rng of even getting the guardian you can use instead of a normal one
and after that you have the rng between 1 and 3

so how high is the chance realy ?
 

Micela

Astellian
Sep 16, 2019
639
467
63
Well the game is like Diablo or a similar game. You get permanently rewarded , because you can make use out of everything and you still need tons of XP after lvl 50.

But the difference is the loot. In a game like Diablo , you've a bunch of legendaries with different stats and combinations. You're able to reroll one stat if needed.
All you get here is more of the same, unless you care about the +3/4% dir subclasses. But there is no setbonus or legendary perk or whatever. Different namens, nearly same stats... and you dont get a legendary every 30mins.
They need to increase the droprate drastically and bring in more vriations with perks and stuff and a bit more of RNG. It'll make the grind much more rewarding and everyone could reroll a bad stat.

Nobody wants to do 7 days a week hunting ground to get a useless legendary from the vendor. Even the lucky guys with +10BiS gear dont have anything to do / to farm.
We need more legendaries with more variatons for different builds.


The 2nd issue is, that we get nearly all astels via quests. I thought i could feel like Pokemon-Master, who'll Collect them all... but sadly the game throws them on us and all is about RNG after that.
Collecting astels in Dungeons or collosseum with a weekly rotaion (so not every astel can be grinded each day) would've made more sense.
It would've been a "yeaaaaaaaah" effect when you get one by one with your own efford.
 
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Evo

Astellian
May 24, 2019
152
48
28
you don't,
they nerfed the astel packs from 1 to 5 stars down into 1 to 3 stars [with less rng involved ... how much less ... god knows]

so ... even within these acchievements ...
you first have the rng of even getting the guardian you can use instead of a normal one
and after that you have the rng between 1 and 3

so how high is the chance realy ?
Oh really ? i didnt know they nerfed the packs from achievement too. Thought they only nerfed star caller's box
The chance isnt low, i saw 3 people got it in week 1
 

Terra

Astellian
Sep 20, 2019
639
325
63
i agree with you in the part of variety ...

more variety possibilitys, chances to "reroll" a bad stat, and things like deckbonuses and seteffekts ...
these are things, which could get used on a much wider scale [and if balanced well it would make the game more interesting ... since you never know, what the others use]

on the other hand the rng part ... i have to disagree,
this game has already way too much rng ...

the rng, infact, has to get way more limited ...

maybe ... well ... not the rng itself so much ...
but the avarage an account gets shouldn't be tied to pure rng

for example ...
if char a] gets one legandary ring for his class within time x ...
than char b] should also get an - as usefull / as good - one within the same timeframe

yes, the exact item can be random ... and yes, the exact time, when it dropps may be too ...

but on avarage, it should "even out", so that each character get's the same chances ...
chances ... not rng "on paper" - wise ... but chances, in therms of real droprates

about the astel :

i think, that it's actually good,
that you get them via quests and storry tied to each astel ...
that makes them way more interesting (at least for me)

what i do however agree is,
that instead of the "daily-grind" - missions ...
where you just have to get the feeling of "loosing out on something", if you don't get up each and everyday to make them

[yes, this feels like streched content, forced upon you]

it would actually have been better,
to make it more like a "the astels are in danger, help and rescue them" kind of thing [pretty much the "i'm gonna catch em all", that you mentioned]

with fixed drop-rates [so instead of the rng 1-3 star astel from the coins ... the rng of 1-x astel you find, while hunting for them]
not rng based ... afford based [so that after x, you will run across one] ...

and that coupled with a weekly (or maybe even monthly) cap, of how much you can earn that way ...
yes, that's something i'd actually can imagine to see ...
 

Terra

Astellian
Sep 20, 2019
639
325
63
Oh really ? i didnt know they nerfed the packs from achievement too. Thought they only nerfed star caller's box
The chance isnt low, i saw 3 people got it in week 1
not sure ... i thought, they nerfed all ...
aren't they kinda the same anyway ?
 

Evo

Astellian
May 24, 2019
152
48
28
not sure ... i thought, they nerfed all ...
aren't they kinda the same anyway ?
They are not exactly the same.
You can get all 1 star to 5 star astel from achievement pack. The description says 1 star astel only which is wrong.
You can only get 1 of 5 servant and all guardian / savior cards from each type of star caller's box
 

Micela

Astellian
Sep 16, 2019
639
467
63
i agree with you in the part of variety ...

more variety possibilitys, chances to "reroll" a bad stat, and things like deckbonuses and seteffekts ...
these are things, which could get used on a much wider scale [and if balanced well it would make the game more interesting ... since you never know, what the others use]

on the other hand the rng part ... i have to disagree,
this game has already way too much rng ...

the rng, infact, has to get way more limited ...

maybe ... well ... not the rng itself so much ...
but the avarage an account gets shouldn't be tied to pure rng

for example ...
if char a] gets one legandary ring for his class within time x ...
than char b] should also get an - as usefull / as good - one within the same timeframe

yes, the exact item can be random ... and yes, the exact time, when it dropps may be too ...

but on avarage, it should "even out", so that each character get's the same chances ...
chances ... not rng "on paper" - wise ... but chances, in therms of real droprates

about the astel :

i think, that it's actually good,
that you get them via quests and storry tied to each astel ...
that makes them way more interesting (at least for me)

what i do however agree is,
that instead of the "daily-grind" - missions ...
where you just have to get the feeling of "loosing out on something", if you don't get up each and everyday to make them

[yes, this feels like streched content, forced upon you]

it would actually have been better,
to make it more like a "the astels are in danger, help and rescue them" kind of thing [pretty much the "i'm gonna catch em all", that you mentioned]

with fixed drop-rates [so instead of the rng 1-3 star astel from the coins ... the rng of 1-x astel you find, while hunting for them]
not rng based ... afford based [so that after x, you will run across one] ...

and that coupled with a weekly (or maybe even monthly) cap, of how much you can earn that way ...
yes, that's something i'd actually can imagine to see ...
The thing with the RNG is...
When you've maybe 30 unique legendaries and a highly increased droprate, you need a bit more of RNG than we have now.
Otherwise everyone would've them all with nearly perfect within a week maybe, especially when you are able to reroll atleast 1 stat.
Even if it sounds like a big grind again , but things would last longer then and you've more variety and every legendary can be a better legendary. It would be definately more fun to play with a bigger reward and you could try arounf with a lot of new builds.
 

ShadowsDesire

Astellian
Jul 22, 2019
16
27
13
it would actually have been better,
to make it more like a "the astels are in danger, help and rescue them" kind of thing [pretty much the "i'm gonna catch em all", that you mentioned]

with fixed drop-rates [so instead of the rng 1-3 star astel from the coins ... the rng of 1-x astel you find, while hunting for them]
not rng based ... afford based [so that after x, you will run across one] ...

and that coupled with a weekly (or maybe even monthly) cap, of how much you can earn that way ...
yes, that's something i'd actually can imagine to see ...
Aura kingdom had something like that where you had a chance to encounter random eidolons during a high lvl dungeon beat them and you almost always got a key fragment. they could have done something similar with this for a card pack or just flat 1-2 stars.
 

Terra

Astellian
Sep 20, 2019
639
325
63
The thing with the RNG is...
When you've maybe 30 unique legendaries and a highly increased droprate, you need a bit more of RNG than we have now.
you misunderstand me there,
what i criticize is not the rng itself ...

what i criticize is the randomness of the rng ...

let me explain you what i mean on the example of astel,

if i have a astel-card-pack ... and rng'esus rolls ...
than there can be the angelic "non-frustrating and fair" rng'esus
or the demonic to devil "kinda ruins the fun and feels unfair" type of rng'esus

the one goes out there,
gives player A] a 5 star astel ... another 5 star astel ... aaaaand *drums* a 5star guardian after it
while player B] gets 1,1,1,1,1,1,1 ...

that's the kind of rng [or let's call it by it's name "randomness"], which i absolutely dislike ... the demonic one, who ruins the fun

if i run a dungeon 5 times in a row ...
see the treasure dropping 4 times next to me for other players and even hear them laughing ... how they now are gonna sell it to the vendor for 10k, cause they have it already 3 times

than that's the kind of rng, which kinda ruins the fun for me

but there can be also another kind of rng ... a "fun" kind ...

again with the astel comparison
if player A] can -somewhat- choose, if he wants a knight, a magic, a ... as astel,
and than chooses knight and get's a [random] 4* defance type astel out of it ... and many 2 or 3 stars

if player B] also can -somewhat- choose, in which direction his char should walk ... and than chooses a [insert] ... and gets a [again random and again 4*] out of it ... coupled wit many 2 or 3 stars

than that is an rng-system ... which
a) allows the player to somewhat influence the outcome,
b) and thus doesn't feel as random anymore while
c) being fair (!) and
d) adding variety to the possible mix ...

so a "good" kind of rng,
where everyone progresses at the same speed and the "rng" just adds a [large] tilt in variety into the mix ...

it doesn't matter,
if i get scoolar item A or scoolar item B,
if both of these items are equally usefull for my character ...

that's the kind of rng i have nothing against ...
and that's the kind of rng this game ... absolutely doesn't have

the rng we have within this game right now ...
the devilish, random, unfair one ... that's the one i hate and don't like to see
 
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Micela

Astellian
Sep 16, 2019
639
467
63
you misunderstand me there,
what i criticize is not the rng itself ...

what i criticize is the randomness of the rng ...

let me explain you what i mean on the example of astel,

if i have a astel-card-pack ... and rng'esus rolls ...
than there can be the angelic "non-frustrating and fair" rng'esus
or the demonic to devil "kinda ruins the fun and feels unfair" type of rng'esus

the one goes out there,
gives player A] a 5 star astel ... another 5 star astel ... aaaaand *drums* a 5star guardian after it
while player B] gets 1,1,1,1,1,1,1 ...

that's the kind of rng [or let's call it by it's name "randomness"], which i absolutely dislike ... the demonic one, who ruins the fun

if i run a dungeon 5 times in a row ...
see the treasure dropping 4 times next to me for other players and even hear them laughing ... how they now are gonna sell it to the vendor for 10k, cause they have it already 3 times

than that's the kind of rng, which kinda ruins the fun for me

but there can be also another kind of rng ... a "fun" kind ...

again with the astel comparison
if player A] can -somewhat- choose, if he wants a knight, a magic, a ... as astel,
and than chooses knight and get's a [random] 4* defance type astel out of it ... and many 2 or 3 stars

if player B] also can -somewhat- choose, in which direction his char should walk ... and than chooses a [insert] ... and gets a [again random and again 4*] out of it ... coupled wit many 2 or 3 stars

than that is an rng-system ... which
a) allows the player to somewhat influence the outcome,
b) and thus doesn't feel as random anymore while
c) being fair (!) and
d) adding variety to the possible mix ...

so a "good" kind of rng,
where everyone progresses at the same speed and the "rng" just adds a [large] tilt in variety into the mix ...

it doesn't matter,
if i get scoolar item A or scoolar item B,
if both of these items are equally usefull for my character ...

that's the kind of rng i have nothing against ...
and that's the kind of rng this game ... absolutely doesn't have

the rng we have within this game right now ...
the devilish, random, unfair one ... that's the one i hate and don't like to see
I know what you mean and that could be better with a "safer - system".
I don´t know how the diablo algorythm works, but you have often the "issue", that you can farm an item 10h or more. Suddenly you get it with perfect stats.
In this case items which the player haven´t seen, could get a higher chance to drop. So everyone will get all legendaries within an amount of time. If you´re unlucky, you can still roll atleast 1 stat or trade with other players.
But the overall outcome is much better for everyone.

The most stuff in any game is based on luck. You´ll never get it fair for everyone. Just i said somewhere else, i got 2 BiS pieces for the mage / scholare from my hunting ground marks. I play assassin... it´s just pain to still walk around with a heroic INT / CON earring. But what should i do... there aren´t even some good one in the AH.
So i was unlucky, but hey... i could create a mage and start to be lucky!

I don´t think that this legendary RNG would be an issue as it is / was on the astel-cards, especially not when you´ll recieve 1 legendary ~30/45mins with different perks and probably better stats.
 

Artemisa

Astellian
Oct 2, 2019
69
30
18
ask that they change the rng, I don't know if it's possible but they should put together a system where you can reroll at least one of the options of the item, I don't know if merging items will do what I say ... to be able to change at least one of the stats of an item would be the most fair.
 
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Zwiebel

Astellian
Jul 4, 2019
221
170
43
Oh really ? i didnt know they nerfed the packs from achievement too. Thought they only nerfed star caller's box
The chance isnt low, i saw 3 people got it in week 1
The achievement-bound boxes werent nerfed. I got a 4 star Glacier out of the 100 potion box on my level 23 twink yesterday.


@topic: The new legendaries are quite hard, even for experienced players.
Also people who monostatted AGI and run around with only 5k life will definitely have trouble staying alive.
 

Kristian999

Astellian
Oct 23, 2019
24
8
3
Another thing would be trying to star the Astels you want to. 7* is the highest we can get now (understandable why you did it but still not cool to give us only like 12 hrs warning) but its still RNG which Astel you get and most times will give you one you don't need/want to increase anymore.
I agree. Specially about the Astels. The cap need to be removed now and the max to be as before 10 stars!
 
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Zellata

Astellian
Aug 3, 2019
214
102
43
ask that they change the rng, I don't know if it's possible but they should put together a system where you can reroll at least one of the options of the item, I don't know if merging items will do what I say ... to be able to change at least one of the stats of an item would be the most fair.
There's an easier way - make series of quests that give you proper gear for your class (i.e. no more str+con+dex+agi accidents) for, let's say, running a leg. dungeon 20 times. Alternatively, you can make leg. dungeon boss drop some sort of a token at 100% drop rate, and create an NPC that sells the right gear for those tokens (again, for example 20 tokens = piece of gear for your class).
 
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Zwiebel

Astellian
Jul 4, 2019
221
170
43
There's an easier way - make series of quests that give you proper gear for your class (i.e. no more str+con+dex+agi accidents) for, let's say, running a leg. dungeon 20 times. Alternatively, you can make leg. dungeon boss drop some sort of a token at 100% drop rate, and create an NPC that sells the right gear for those tokens (again, for example 20 tokens = piece of gear for your class).
The main quest already gives a non rng legendary for our classes which I think shouldnt even be in the game as it completely devalues purples.
But calling an item with balanced 8% on all stats an "accident" is retarded.

Why do people insist on getting everything stuffed in their asses for no reason at all?
If anything, getting full legendary gear is too easy compared to other games.
 

Xovian

Astellian
May 27, 2019
402
435
63
I find it amusing talking about the cap for astels, cause im just so far from the current that it isnt an issue for me.
While i do agree i think its needless. Punishing the few who got lucky is a bad decision IMO.
Do you think punishing lotto winners is right too, cause that's essentially what has been done.

Some of the devs recent decisions have been disappointing. Instead of boosting people up yall have chosen to tear us down.
Why and for what reason(s)? Currently explanations are not reasons, they're generic cop outs that you hear from a 6 year old making an excuse for a bad decision.

Here's this weeks coliseum boxes of disappointment, another week and still no Ram in sight.

1573311766740.png

Taurus at 3* now. Guess that's "progress"?
 
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Zellata

Astellian
Aug 3, 2019
214
102
43
The main quest already gives a non rng legendary for our classes which I think shouldnt even be in the game as it completely devalues purples.
But calling an item with balanced 8% on all stats an "accident" is retarded.
It's a very misleading way to describe it. The correct version would be "an item with 8% on TWO (or both, if you will) stats", as there's no class in game that needs all 4 of those.

Why do people insist on getting everything stuffed in their asses for no reason at all?
If anything, getting full legendary gear is too easy compared to other games.
This right here is where the disconnect is. First of all, the argument is not about making gearing-up process necessarily faster, but about making it happen within a predictable time. Second, it's not about legendary gear vs. purple gear, but rather about getting gear with specific stat increases, regardless of its color.
 

Terra

Astellian
Sep 20, 2019
639
325
63
Do you think punishing lotto winners is right too, cause that's essentially what has been done.
in the country i'm from,
luck games like lotto are regulatet and controlled by government ...

just saying

i would realy wish,
they would put other "luck-games" [like loot-boxes etc] under the same rules ...
bec it has the same effect on the human brain ...

that said ... a better comparison would probably be a war [ = the competition we have pvp as well as pve] ...

if there is a civil war,
and everyone is equally well fed ... than the peaple would fight ... but nobody would try to take away your meal

if on the other hand on one side you have starving peaple, not knowing where to get food for tomorrow ...
while at the same time you have one landlord [who had the luck, of being born into the right family] ... eating and drinking (on the cost of all oters ... bec thats essentially what the rng is about ... if one gets much, another one has to get less ... so that it evens out to an avarage] stuffs himself full infront of your eyes ...

well ... look at human history ... we already had such times ...
and they always ended up in the same way ...
 
Last edited:
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