Astels Account Wide

Artemisa

Astellian
Oct 2, 2019
65
34
18
Assuming that tomorrow they take out a new class, nobody is going to want to reroll to that class since the stars of astels are lost and the progress achieved in the astels, I think that the astels should be account wide and shared between the different characters . The progress of the astels is earned over time is not like the equipment that can be bought again.

Do you think that astels could be account wide?
 

ChromasIV

Astellian
May 24, 2019
79
60
18
Yes, I'm tired of games removing progression because I want to reroll.

Let me trade and use items on all of my characters I make.
 
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Micela

Astellian
Sep 16, 2019
1,065
877
113
No.

Players would be able to farm Astels 24/7 then and a lot would´ve 7* Astels within a week probably.

It would be ok to implement something like a legacy where you´ve to choose your main character and a legacy - Astel. This Astel can be used on every character from beginning.
Everything else would break the game. Progress is and should stay character - based. You´ll have enough time in the future to play some alts. Especially the ticket-system says: "Hey play an alt!".

There is no need to bring everything on max per mouseclick on an alt. Main is main and alt is alt... it should stay like that. The overall progress is already really fast in this game.
 

Larafey

Astellian
Jun 26, 2019
149
44
28
Imagine a fresh Player lvl 15 doing runs (or greater) with Lvl 50 Astells. Perhaps all Astell start with lvl 1 again and 1 Stars on the Twink

Because let alone these random Astells drops are even on a twink a pain in the butt
 
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mystykz

Astellian
Sep 30, 2019
85
71
18
I do think giving access to an Alt to all Astels if you got them on your Main would be fine if they start at Level 1 and 1 Star.
 

Artemisa

Astellian
Oct 2, 2019
65
34
18
Allright its a bad idea, ppl who wants to rerol better leave the game because im not lvling all my astels again with this RNG crap system...actually you cant do dungeons till lvl 50 because there is no ppl to run them, so there you go your fast progres, no ppl to run dungeons till lvl 50 and no astels...
 

Micela

Astellian
Sep 16, 2019
1,065
877
113
Allright its a bad idea, ppl who wants to rerol better leave the game because im not lvling all my astels again with this RNG crap system...actually you cant do dungeons till lvl 50 because there is no ppl to run them, so there you go your fast progres, no ppl to run dungeons till lvl 50 and no astels...
Solodungeons?!
 

Trox

Astellian
May 24, 2019
379
223
43
Allright its a bad idea, ppl who wants to rerol better leave the game because im not lvling all my astels again with this RNG crap system...actually you cant do dungeons till lvl 50 because there is no ppl to run them, so there you go your fast progres, no ppl to run dungeons till lvl 50 and no astels...
Join a guild, make friends, ask for some help running a few dungeons, ???????, profit.

One nice thing about having to grind up every Astel even on alts is that there will always be a reason to go back and run the dungeons.

I've probably ran the lower level dungeons at level 50 than the Legendaries helping run Guidlies and even some randoms asking for help in chat, and don't mind doing so because I do need the Astel packs from them still.
 

Quizzical

Astellian
Oct 13, 2019
92
44
18
I would like to propose a catch-up mechanic instead. The short version is that whenever you gain astel points, it checks to see how many other characters on that account would still have more astel points for that particular astel even after adding the new gain. If there are n such characters on the account, then the astel point gain is multiplied by n+1.

To avoid a decently obvious way to exploit this system, I would add an additional caveat. When you gain astel points on an astel, if there is a fixed, one-time gain for that astel that you had not previously earned (basically, quest reward or star's tale), then the catch-up mechanic is not applied. In particular, it is never applied to astel point gains from quest rewards or star's tale.

That might seem like a peculiar system, so I should explain why. There is a basic principle of good game design that the means of progression ought not conflict with the means of enjoyment. That is, to the extent that it is possible, progressing in a game ought not require that players refrain from having fun and instead focus on doing something stupid and boring.

Some people like to play alts. Some people don't. Ideally, you'd like a system to work for both types of players. As it stands, any endgame stuff that relies on astels with 5+ stars doesn't work for people who play alts. It's quite a grind to get there, and having to repeat that in full on every character would be miserable. For such people, the most sensible thing to do is to avoid that content--which includes all PVP--as being useless garbage, or perhaps have some token participation in order to get rewards useful for PVE.

Some people don't like to play alts. Those people should not be pushed to play alts as a way to progress on their main. Full account-wide sharing of all astels would do exactly that. For example, get both star's tale rewards for Rota on each of five characters and you'd have a seven-star Rota that would have been nine before the recent cap. (Preventing this is one of the reasons for my caveat above.) Even apart from that, you'd have to repeat dailies and use dungeon tickets on multiple alts to progress your main faster.

Some people have a "solution" of telling everyone with a play style different from their own to quit the game. You can see at least one of them above on this very thread. That's really not a good solution, whether for Barunson making money, for them deciding to keep the servers running, or for having plenty of other players to group with in PVE or compete against in PVP.

My proposed catch-up mechanic would mean that players still have to level astels from 1 to 50 separately on each alt as normal. That's not an onerous burden the way that starring them up is. They would typically still be relatively few stars when the player hit 50, so it would be extremely rare for this to lead to a sub-50 player having a five-star astel, let alone six or seven. Thus, this doesn't change the leveling process much.

It would tend to skew things against playing alts, so that a single main would tend to be stronger than any character of a player who splits time between multiple characters. It would, however, narrow the gap quite a lot as compared to the current system. For a player who mostly plays a single main, but spends a little time on an alt, the main would rarely to never be affected, but the alt would get a considerable boost, with most astel drops doubled. For a player who splits time more evenly between several characters, many or all of the characters would end with considerably stronger astels than they would otherwise, but they'd all be considerably weaker than if the player spent the same amount of time all on a single main.
 

Terra

Astellian
Sep 20, 2019
1,077
600
113
Do you think that astels could be account wide?
my vote goes in favor of that with an addition ...
not only the astel, also the crafting / gathering skills should be either shared account wide ... or at least have the possibility, to switch [not 100 times in a row ... but once every few weeks] without loosing the progress of the previouse skill

bec as it is now, many of the "new characters" are nothing more than gathering twinks and alternatives for the already high characters, to farm tham the needed mats

so why spreading the grind to seperated characters,
when you could as well have it on the same

edit: the only exception i would actually make to your idea, ... i'd put in a limit to it ...

so that you can't walk [with the current system] hundreds of dungeons with 5 alts and make the daily with everyone thus getting the high roll astel's ... while someone on one single character can't

so if the astel's are "shared", the daily and dungeon-rewards would have to be shared (and thus limited) too in some way
 

Jazices

Astellian
Nov 10, 2019
35
34
18
Catch up mechanics in general will have to be implemented in like a year e.g. else new people have no chance to be able to do anything with veterans who will just play with veterans due to new people not yet being high enough geared and astellstarred. There is a reason every successful mmo implants them every few patches like once or twice a year roughly. So that new people don’t feel alienated and “worthless”.
 

Flet

Astellian
Oct 11, 2019
42
12
8
This game will probably need catch up mechanics, but the need for catch up mechanics is simply to fix a flawed model. Therefore one shouldn't see catch up mechanics as inherently a good thing, but as a necessary evil to help a flawed system. The distinction is important, because it must be established that a proper game wouldn't need them, else future games might just have them by default, or even design the flaws which necessitate them into their structures to justify having them because they, and the problems they are fixing, become seen as standard.
A big problem that can arise from catch up mechanics is the sense of obsolescence some have. You will lose people by making them feel like all their effort was worthless just as easily as you will lose people by making them feel they will never catch up.

For some perspective. I once played an mmo that had no progression cap at all. I quit playing it after 4 years, over the period of these 4 years the strongest people were predictably the people who had spent all 4 of those years being very serious about constant progression. Being dedicated to the game and working to advance. Such people were unimaginably powerful compared to the average, let alone a new player who only played a few months. I remember at the time thinking about this, and wondering at this system. How could anyone ever compete? How could anyone catch up? The sense that people were just sort of locked in place, struggling to keep their place. The ladder was not something we climbed, but struggled to cling to as more rungs were added below us.
I quit that game.
About 5 years later i went back to see how things were, made a new character to play a class i always wanted to try (i played the same character for those 4 years, naturally).
To my surprise the strongest player in the game at that time was not only not one of the original people who were at the top those 5 years ago, but was not even playing when i had quit! In those 5 years, they had managed to not only 'catch up' to the top, but become the absolute top.
This shows, i think, that my understanding was somewhat flawed, that its not in fact hopeless, and catching up is in fact possible. Granted its not standard, but the fact that it was even possible at all shook my understanding.

Indeed, people feeling worthless must be avoided, but if the only way a game can make you feel that you have worth is by you being at 'the top' with everyone else, then something has already gone wrong in its design.
We can compare this to a ship at sea and its center of gravity. If its center of gravity is low, it will rock but never capsize. If its center of gravity is high, it will feel stable in a storm, right up until it flips over entirely. A good mmo has a low center of gravity, with the majority of players well below the top. They build the foundation of the world, with their tasks and ambitions and experiences, and the top is a matter of perspective to them, many tops, a far off horizon for every direction they decide to move. A bad mmo is top heavy, all the players at the top, and in the same place. All up there providing little stability, little life to the game. Huddling away from the necrotic creep of the shrivling support structure slowly withering because the game is designed around consumed content and that content has already been picked clean. The few up and coming looking for scraps and dieing of starvation before they even reach the top. It all collapses in the end.
 
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ronoch

Astellian
Jun 20, 2019
196
93
28
Assuming that tomorrow they take out a new class, nobody is going to want to reroll to that class since the stars of astels are lost and the progress achieved in the astels, I think that the astels should be account wide and shared between the different characters . The progress of the astels is earned over time is not like the equipment that can be bought again.

Do you think that astels could be account wide?
I was actually reluctant to reroll and actually play another classs for this sole reason. When you think about it , they are missing out on potential money as well from buying stuff for other character alts like costumes, bank space, extra astel bars, skill pages, etc. It wouldn't be SO bad if the astels didn't already take sooooo long to star/level up.

At the same time if they do decide to make them account wide, that would be extreme BS to the ones that decided to level other characters and go through with the star leveling on their alts which perhaps they ended up making their mains. Unless of course, they were doing weeklies/dungeons on both toons but - ain't nobody got time fo dat.
 
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Zwiebel

Astellian
Jul 4, 2019
409
329
63
If they make Astels account wide they would have to redesign several game systems (dailies, weeklys, startales, tickets, etc) which makes me think it will not happen.
 

Terra

Astellian
Sep 20, 2019
1,077
600
113
startales wouldn't neccacaryly have to be redesigned,
as it only involves a certain, selected, few astels ... since we currently have a cap on astels from 7, that star-tail rewards shouldn't influence things too much ...

and the ticketsystem is something, heavily critizieced by large parts of the community since the beginning anyway ...

for the dailys and weeklys, there you're right ... they would need a redesign to have some kind of account wide cap for that idea ... so for the futere entirely doable ... but for a merge of currently already existing chars i see it as problematic, since it could create large gaps
 
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Kilvorian

Astellian
Sep 22, 2019
60
49
18
Account wide astels would incentivize and basically make it mandatory to have alts if you cared about your game progression at all. People would be doing the dailies/weeklie HG quests on every character they had to try to max out their astels with star caller coins. Given the fact that people were able to already bring astels to 8* in under a month... I really don't understand why this would be a thing and if it was would lead to people burning out and causing a huge gap between the casual and the hardcore beyond what already exists.

Would I like it? sure... Is it going to happen? Never, and I understand why and accept it.