Communication, Patch Notes, and more... [Update | 10/25]

Oraqlas

Astellian
Oct 2, 2019
11
12
3
Karza’s Treasures: The adjustments to Karza’s Treasures are part of an ongoing set of general balancing adjustments for Astellia. We are collecting player feedback regarding these preliminary changes, and encourage you to share your insights with us.
**** balance
 

ELPerro

Astellian
Sep 30, 2019
14
17
3
  • Karza’s Treasures: The adjustments to Karza’s Treasures are part of an ongoing set of general balancing adjustments for Astellia. We are collecting player feedback regarding these preliminary changes, and encourage you to share your insights with us.
The Treasure Adjustment is the most prominent example, but it seems fairly important to me, that you document all of the changes in the patch notes. This is something that works to your advantage as well: The short patchnotes might give the impression, that not much is being done while it is quite the opposite. Not documenting changes to spells/astells/items makes it harder for players to adjust, react and give feedback to those changes.

In regards to the Treasure Adjustment itself: The legendary treasures are now as good as the heroic ones, sometimes they are worse than them. This is not optimal. And given the fact that you also need to level your astells for the full bonuses, it doesn't even seem overpowered to have the +9 treasures. As some people before me, I'd suggest completely reverting those changes.

In regards to loot: There seems to be a significant change in loot drops on legendary. However, they still drop greens and blue items while the preview-window only lists heroic items. That leads to the false impression that legendary dungeons drop only heroic+ gear. In my opinion you should either adjust the loot preview or significantly reduce blue/green loot in those dungeons. Even worse: I did 4 Legendary Rutlass runs and then one Sansara Fortress normal run. While Legendary Rutlass gave me nothing but greens and blues, Sansara Normal gave me 5 heroics and almost all of the rest was blue. This just doesn't seem right to me, even considering the RNG nature of the game.
 

Younai

Astellian
Aug 20, 2019
24
10
3
The Treasure Adjustment is the most prominent example, but it seems fairly important to me, that you document all of the changes in the patch notes. This is something that works to your advantage as well: The short patchnotes might give the impression, that not much is being done while it is quite the opposite. Not documenting changes to spells/astells/items makes it harder for players to adjust, react and give feedback to those changes.

In regards to the Treasure Adjustment itself: The legendary treasures are now as good as the heroic ones, sometimes they are worse than them. This is not optimal. And given the fact that you also need to level your astells for the full bonuses, it doesn't even seem overpowered to have the +9 treasures. As some people before me, I'd suggest completely reverting those changes.

In regards to loot: There seems to be a significant change in loot drops on legendary. However, they still drop greens and blue items while the preview-window only lists heroic items. That leads to the false impression that legendary dungeons drop only heroic+ gear. In my opinion you should either adjust the loot preview or significantly reduce blue/green loot in those dungeons. Even worse: I did 4 Legendary Rutlass runs and then one Sansara Fortress normal run. While Legendary Rutlass gave me nothing but greens and blues, Sansara Normal gave me 5 heroics and almost all of the rest was blue. This just doesn't seem right to me, even considering the RNG nature of the game.
Well why people dont undestand its the first tier of legendaries dungeons, easiest ones so there wont be all drops legends and heroics. Its just 2tickets... Go lab it drop more loot, or just wait for eligos dungeon 4star and get wiped :v
 

Younai

Astellian
Aug 20, 2019
24
10
3
About treasures i think they are ok whit the nerf , they where to op, plus they are adding new ones next big update.
 
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Xovian

Astellian
May 27, 2019
403
439
63
  • Karza’s Treasures: The adjustments to Karza’s Treasures are part of an ongoing set of general balancing adjustments for Astellia. We are collecting player feedback regarding these preliminary changes, and encourage you to share your insights with us.
Balance adjustment my ass.
It wasn't included in the notes cause it has nothing to do with balance, other wise your saying that deck buffs are OP, so even if they were gotten with the Astel's there's an issue. Cant say one is a balance issue with out saying the other is as well. I'm calling bullsh$. This was a nerf to force the time gate to be even longer and no other reason, cause that is ALL this change really does.

Simply put a single level of the buff isn't sufficient to warrant a power difference of any real value by itself, or the Astel's themselves would also have been balanced due to giving the same buffs. This was a BAD change and should be reverted.

About treasures i think they are ok whit the nerf , they where to op, plus they are adding new ones next big update.
Please explain how any single treasure giving a single level of a deck buff is OP?
By all means try to explain this, cause i don't think ya can.
Cause you'd also be saying getting the astels deck buff is over powered which is outright stupid to say, its a primary mechanic of building up the star level of the Astels in the first place.

The only thing treasures were allowing was for people to get an extra single deck buf for which they may or may not be using the astels that grant them. The change now REQUIRES at least some of the Astel's be used, and of sufficient star level to get the buff in the first place.
I'm sorry but there is not one deck buff that is OP by itself, none of them.
 

Gialing

Astellian
Sep 18, 2019
8
8
3
A new event dungeon has been added, full of festive decorations and Halloween themed monsters.

The minimum level requirement to participate is level 35, and will cost 2 dungeon tickets upon entry.

The rewards for completing the dungeon are as follows:
  • Nasty Smelling Candy Token (x10) [Guaranteed]
  • Eligos Astel Skin (The Candy King) [Chance to Drop]
  • Plus other basic dungeon rewards (similar to running a normal level appropriate dungeon)

Hey guy's,

i'm not seeing this drop is that just me?
Nasty Smelling Candy Token (x10) [Guaranteed]
 

Younai

Astellian
Aug 20, 2019
24
10
3
Balance adjustment my ass.
It wasn't included in the notes cause it has nothing to do with balance, other wise your saying that deck buffs are OP, so even if they were gotten with the Astel's there's an issue. Cant say one is a balance issue with out saying the other is as well. I'm calling bullsh$. This was a nerf to force the time gate to be even longer and no other reason, cause that is ALL this change really does.

Simply put a single level of the buff isn't sufficient to warrant a power difference of any real value by itself, or the Astel's themselves would also have been balanced due to giving the same buffs. This was a BAD change and should be reverted.


Please explain how any single treasure giving a single level of a deck buff is OP?
By all means try to explain this, cause i don't think ya can.
Cause you'd also be saying getting the astels deck buff is over powered which is outright stupid to say, its a primary mechanic of building up the star level of the Astels in the first place.

The only thing treasures were allowing was for people to get an extra single deck buf for which they may or may not be using the astels that grant them. The change now REQUIRES at least some of the Astel's be used, and of sufficient star level to get the buff in the first place.
I'm sorry but there is not one deck buff that is OP by itself, none of them.
Im refering to p.attack , hp, stats buffs tho, astell deck buffs should stay the same before nerf
 

Terra

Astellian
Sep 20, 2019
1,077
599
113
This just doesn't seem right to me, even considering the RNG nature of the game.
i did 1 ruthlass and a few lab ...

during that time i saw 3 times the treasure of ruth dropping ... one vitalizer and about 8 or 9 books ...
i myself got my hand on 4 books within 2 days ...

so, in my opinion the problem still is [and always was] not the droprate iteself ...
but the rng involved in this dropps

some peaple get it twice, thrice or even four times ...
while others still hope, see them dropping next to them and run, and run and run ... just to hear ppl say, "hey, i'll scrap it ... have it already 4 times" ...

the main problem is the rng ... not the dropchances per se
 
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Dixi

Astellian
Sep 15, 2019
8
15
3
Karza’s Treasures: Those artifacts where giving too small bonuses... and you NERFED them some more!!! Legendary item that give 5% to HP on tooltip, and less actually. That's too little! I expected about 20-25% HP bonus for a legendary item.

Whole Halloween event seems just cheap replacement of promised on 22-oct-19 Avalon. Nothing interesting at all.
 

Terra

Astellian
Sep 20, 2019
1,077
599
113
Please explain how any single treasure giving a single level of a deck buff is OP?
By all means try to explain this, cause i don't think ya can.
the main issue here is, we don't know whats intended ...
we don't know, which treasures they intend for higher (endgame-content) dungeons etc

if you see these treasures, for example, as an entry into the "real" dungeons or as a stepping stone [to close the gap between buyable and true treasures] ... as "mid-lvl" treasures ... to somewhat level the playing field [allowing the good players to progress ... while preventing the players with not so much time to fall back to much ... so that they can somewhat compete together]

than i'd say this balance issue is perfectly suited for that

but the main problem remains ...
that we simply don't know what's intended for the future
 
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Younai

Astellian
Aug 20, 2019
24
10
3
Karza’s Treasures: Those artifacts where giving too small bonuses... and you NERFED them some more!!! Legendary item that give 5% to HP on tooltip, and less actually. That's too little! I expected about 20-25% HP bonus for a legendary item.

Whole Halloween event seems just cheap replacement of promised on 22-oct-19 Avalon. Nothing interesting at all.
Lmao 20-25%
 

Xovian

Astellian
May 27, 2019
403
439
63
@Terra ,

Isn't mid level blue/purple?
Isn't legendary supposed to be better than those?
Why was only the high end adjusted, if there was an actual imbalance, they would have all been adjusted. I mean a heroic shouldnt be the same as a legend right? Any disagreements here?
You don't make balancing changes half ass, you make them a thorough change, so that across all areas things are equal and balanced.
This is not what happened, and thus there is no justification for the change. If anything these changes have a created a massive imbalance cause now Heroics are "better" than they should be.

This is why i have the complaint this was not done for balance, cause the other parts of that balance were completely ignored, and only one small section/group was focused which with balancing can't be done. Treasures were not even balanced among themselves, much less other mechanics. Honestly this looks like a knee-jerk-reaction nerf to something that was found (internally or not) and then changed based on it with out any real planning or verification so that all things with in this group were adjusted and balanced accordingly.
 

Terra

Astellian
Sep 20, 2019
1,077
599
113
Isn't legendary supposed to be better than those?
Why was only the high end adjusted, if there was an actual imbalance, they would have all been adjusted. I mean a heroic shouldnt be the same as a legend right? Any disagreements here?
yes ... i disagree,

the title "legandary/heroic/rare/uncommon/common/" in my oppinion are indicators for the rarity of something,
not for the real strenght of it ... it doesn't automatically have to mean, that it's "the best of the best" out there ...
just, that the chance of it beeing good are higher

in fact, i personally think, that it's a good thing ... that good heroic can be better than weak legandary
[that way, ppl will have to look at the actual stats and heroic stuff won't get worthless by default, just becouse of legandary existing]

and if it's realy the rarity, which is your problem here ...
than yes ... with the current drop rates [obtained 4 books within 2 days] ... they could as well label them green or blue ... ok, sure, why not ... problem solved ... right ... they'd no longer be legandary anymore ;)

the point is ...
an item should be as strong, as hard it is to obtain ...
and the gap between players without much time and players 24/7'ing shouldn't get too big

and i think, that with treasures easily available [but than with 5 or 7 instead of 9 deckpoints] exactly that is happening

the question, like i said,
is ... what they plan for the future ... how strong other treasures (in higher dungeons) will be and how easily these could be obtained

that the deckeffects and treasures need to be balanced even better ... true, i absolutly agree with you on that one
but that doesn't change my opinion, that this [tier-1-legandary dungeons] could be used as a realy good stepping stone, to prevent the gap between good/extremely lucky and bad/extremely unluck to open up to wide ... while still having enough potential for higher grad 7,9+ treasures in higher tier dungeons]
 

Xovian

Astellian
May 27, 2019
403
439
63
the point is ...
an item should be as strong, as hard it is to obtain ...
and the gap between players without much time and players 24/7'ing shouldn't get too big

and i think, that with treasures easily available [but than with 5 or 7 instead of 9 deckpoints] exactly that is happening

the question, like i said,
is ... what they plan for the future ... how strong other treasures (in higher dungeons) will be and how easily these could be obtained
I play around 4-6 hours nightly. Sometimes less depending on work/family.
I'm hardly some no lifer, but i spent an exorbitant amount of my play time getting one of the treasures.
This game is supposed to be and i quote, "play to win", which means playing more will be rewarded more, as it should be.
I may play a lot compared to some, but there are many who play more than i do, and i accept this as part of balance.

I will starkly disagree that there should be no gap between players because some dont play more than others. Otherwise playing gives no advantage. I highly doubt that anyone thinks a person who has been playing for months should be at the same level as someone who hit 50 an hour ago. It would be a horrid design flaw.
 
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Zellata

Astellian
Aug 3, 2019
215
104
43
yes ... i disagree,

the title "legandary/heroic/rare/uncommon/common/" in my oppinion are indicators for the rarity of something,
not for the real strenght of it ... it doesn't automatically have to mean, that it's "the best of the best" out there ...
just, that the chance of it beeing good are higher
Traditionally, it's just color coding - a QoL thing for players, designed specifically to remove the necessity to crunch numbers for every piece of gear one finds. I can't think of any game where it implies "more rare, but not necessarily better".
 

Ryan

Astellian
Sep 20, 2019
17
9
3
I I don't know why they're already nerfing but it all seems goofy to me. There will never be perfect balance.
 

Terra

Astellian
Sep 20, 2019
1,077
599
113
I will starkly disagree that there should be no gap between players because some dont play more than others.
i never said no gap ... i said, that the gap shouldn't be too big

and personally i have to say, that i prefer games, where skill [and that can mean many, many different things] is the deciding factor ...
and not time or previously invested money

if someone played 1 hour or 10.000 hours ... of course it should make a difference
but the deciding factor still should be, if a person is capable of playing his char ... the question if he uses his astels and skills in the right or wrong way ... the question if he's able to choose the right stat's and combos for his playing style ...

and not a ... "uuu, i played since day 1 ... i'll win by default, simply bec. my gear is already way better than yours"

and there, like i said
i think that such "stepping stones" on the way up are exactly the right way to go ...

becouse that way, the one who played since 10.000 hours will still, by default, be better (equiped) than the one just startet ... thus (again by default) having an advantage

but the weaker one will still have the chance ... or at least the feeling, to be able to somewhat compete

the important and deciding factor there is ... how high do the devs allow such a gap to become ...
and skill (knowledge about your skills, your astels, your stats, your timing, etc etc pp) should always be more important than pure eq
 

Xovian

Astellian
May 27, 2019
403
439
63
i never said no gap ... i said, that the gap shouldn't be too big
This isn't GW2, this game doesn't have a "structured PvP" area where everything is strictly controlled and gear/skills are set so that "skill actually matters" (well in theory), as their balance even in structured is straight up crap, because any class that gets regulated to only being a +1 ends all semblance of balance...period.

Honestly i think that's what you are asking for, and maybe its worth the suggestion as an addition somewhere, but as is, and when Avalon releases, it has no place in the game, IMO. That may well be an entirely different discussion for the forums. However it is also completely illogical to think that the "advantage" shouldn't be to the person who has been playing longer. No such thing as a guaranteed win, way too much RNG in this game for that to be the case anyways.

You disagree still with this after what i just said, then ask yourself this: Are you willing to spend the, lets be generous, 8 months (probably much longer) to get your Astel's and the deck buffs that 10 stars bring only to have someone who is wearing heroics, a recent 50, with less than a week in the game, to curb stomp you? You cant tell me after 8 months you dont know your class, unless a player is just a complete idiot, this is essentially impossible. Other wise you will have an empty game cause getting upgrades, upgrading the Astel's essentially accomplishes nothing, which means no progression, which means no carrot on a stick for people to chase, which leads to a dead game. I won't even get into the inevitable power creep that every MMORPG gets into as time moves forward.

Are you willing to put in that much time to a character and a game and say you are fine with being only marginally better than a new character?
Frankly if you say yes, I don't believe you. Cause this isn't some MOBA, it's an MMORPG.

I realize this isn't going to change your mind, but i will leave it at this, we have completely different views on how a classic MMO should play.
So at this point we're probably gonna have to agree to disagree and move on.
 
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