Crafting and Gathering.

Ideabulb

Astellian
Jul 5, 2019
71
24
8
Over all its got some good points but then there are the bad ones that currently outwiegh the good.

One such bad point is it gives you no experience. Experience is crucial for leveling guilds in game. In nearly every other big game you gain experience when gathering or crafting. So why not in this one.
The biggest point is you need experience to gain contribution. So the people who choose to craft will be getting less Contribution points. I feel this was just overlooked.

The next thing to discuss is the over all time it takes to craft gear. It wont be so bad if a guild works together to do this but lets be honest. Are people going to want to donate there mats so that someone else can get the gear before them, no. The majority will not.
How to fix this without doing a big overhaul is pretty simple. One of two important things I can think of.

First way is to increase the number of gathering items on a map. It is only the low level maps and tiers of items that have a good place to gather. I spammed this during cbt1 in fact the upper level gathering spots are so spread out that on some levels it is faster to gather the lower level items for LESS EXPERIENCE then the current level you are on. If you did this there would need to be at least one large cluster of each type of gatherable object.

Second way is to lower the amount of gatherable items needed to craft. It takes 120 logs for one upper level craft in the Carpentry section. 120!!! That is not a small number. The spawns are speradic. So this can take a few hours to get BUT WAIT IT GETS WORSE. You need another two types of matierals to go with the logs. Three types per gear or weapon piece you craft two of them gathered BUT WAIT IT GETS WORSE. That is only for one craft attempt for gear or weapon. The community is Estimating to be 10 or 20 to make one legend BUT WAIT IT GETS WORSE. You need Multiple Legends to make Tier Two items. The sheer amount of time this takes just to make one tier 2 legend is months and that is if you are active no lifeing everyday. It is currently so much faster to farm gear in dungeons this has very little use.

One other important thing. The Fiber or Leather that drops in dungeons is a good idea. How ever you need 72 for one craft if it takes 10 or 20 attemps that is 770 leather. So lets sit back and remember that cash flow from quests in this game is quite large and if people have large amounts they wont sell materials for small ones. They will trash them or throw them up for high amounts.
After Earning a Million from questing and being generous the smallest we will see is 1k-2 each for these mats. At 1/10 that is 770,000 or 1,440,000. At 2k each that is 1,440,000 or 2,880,000. 2.8MILLION JUST FOR ONE TYPE OF MAT. That does not include the other millions worth of mats you need in addition to that.
This amount needs to be nerfed down or the drop rate needs to go up. One good way would be to make each thing that drops fiber or leather is to have a chance to drop two instead of one. This will make farming them easier. Which is really what we need here with the cash flow being so large. and hopefully bring the price down.

It has a good base for party crafting however the sheer amount of time needs to be fixed or this will be unviable for crafting gear.
 
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Jexx

Astellian
Jul 5, 2019
7
6
3
I'd love to see a game where the vendors have little goods, and what they do have is basic, rewards are just cash, drops can still vary, but selling drops and crafted items to vendors becomes their "extra" stock, they will only buy/sell on a sliding scale based on availability. That way you would have to craft or buy most disposables like pots, and you would be more likely to buy a crafted item from a player. This would avoid the market place where prices can get out of control due to "price fixing".
 

Ideabulb

Astellian
Jul 5, 2019
71
24
8
How does this have anything to do with what I just posted. The biggest point here is its to much to craft gear.
 

Jexx

Astellian
Jul 5, 2019
7
6
3
Sorry the post title was about crafting and gathering, my point although not clear, was that if you are going to have a difficult crafting system, which you imply they have, it would be worth making the crafting system rewarding, so spending hours getting mats and crafting items becomes reasonable.
 

vio

Astellian
May 25, 2019
64
39
18
First way is to increase the number of gathering items on a map. It is only the low level maps and tiers of items that have a good place to gather. I spammed this during cbt1 in fact the upper level gathering spots are so spread out that on some levels it is faster to gather the lower level items for LESS EXPERIENCE then the current level you are on. If you did this there would need to be at least one large cluster of each type of gatherable object.
I dont think you've ever played a mmo players actually had to do work to build the gears. A prime example of this was FFXIV gathering nodes were on random maps and when you reached a high enough tier the gathering nodes would spawn at certain times in the day for only 5 to 10 minutes if i remember right and would despawn after you gathered from it regardless of success or fail before respawning again in another 4 hours. if you didnt attempt to gather from it during the time slot it would despawn anyway.

Also as the crafted gear is supposed to be the best in the game I dont think making it easy to do would be the best option, if it was then the player could go out and farm them non stop before flooding the markets with gear instead of using commerce to purchase some of the harder to find materials from other players thus putting some coin into their pockets besides attempting to take it from gear sales.
 

ronoch

Astellian
Jun 20, 2019
196
92
28
+1 to post - Just don't give them too much to where they can sit in town and craft to hit max lvl faster than the people grinding lol.
 

Ideabulb

Astellian
Jul 5, 2019
71
24
8
I dont think you've ever played a mmo players actually had to do work to build the gears. A prime example of this was FFXIV gathering nodes were on random maps and when you reached a high enough tier the gathering nodes would spawn at certain times in the day for only 5 to 10 minutes if i remember right and would despawn after you gathered from it regardless of success or fail before respawning again in another 4 hours. if you didnt attempt to gather from it during the time slot it would despawn anyway.

Also as the crafted gear is supposed to be the best in the game I dont think making it easy to do would be the best option, if it was then the player could go out and farm them non stop before flooding the markets with gear instead of using commerce to purchase some of the harder to find materials from other players thus putting some coin into their pockets besides attempting to take it from gear sales.
Many games the crafting system was hard that doesnt mean it should be done. In the case you are talking about that games crafting is deemed not needed for the most part and that is what I am trying to avoid here.
 

Ideabulb

Astellian
Jul 5, 2019
71
24
8
+1 to post - Just don't give them too much to where they can sit in town and craft to hit max lvl faster than the people grinding lol.
Yes it should only be a little not alot and not none. Experience for character could be based off of your level meaning you get more at cap so that its not used as a way to fast level in the game and skip the story line astels that are needed.
 

vio

Astellian
May 25, 2019
64
39
18
Many games the crafting system was hard that doesnt mean it should be done. In the case you are talking about that games crafting is deemed not needed for the most part and that is what I am trying to avoid here.
I'm not sure why you think it was deemed not necessary but with regards to crafting was not needed in that game, that is true to a certain point because they made things much easier by giving players the ability to obtain gears much easier so they could catch up with the players who had been playing the game a lot longer. Before the update for that to happen there were previous updates done over time which had the basis that built gears were required to even get access to the areas with better gear which were good for another 3 or 5 levels when the player cap was raised. Dungeon gears were ok but you'd struggle to make the gear level and then you'd just be one of those people being complained to for sucking and dying so much during the raid runs of which I helped carry several people like that through them. With regards to gathering and production gear, the player made gears are still best in slot gears to use even to this day.
 

Ideabulb

Astellian
Jul 5, 2019
71
24
8
I'm not sure why you think it was deemed not necessary but with regards to crafting was not needed in that game, that is true to a certain point because they made things much easier by giving players the ability to obtain gears much easier so they could catch up with the players who had been playing the game a lot longer. Before the update for that to happen there were previous updates done over time which had the basis that built gears were required to even get access to the areas with better gear which were good for another 3 or 5 levels when the player cap was raised. Dungeon gears were ok but you'd struggle to make the gear level and then you'd just be one of those people being complained to for sucking and dying so much during the raid runs of which I helped carry several people like that through them. With regards to gathering and production gear, the player made gears are still best in slot gears to use even to this day.
The crafted gear in astellia is the same as the gear from dungeons there is no advantage and being honest making one better than the other doesnt solve anything It only makes one thing dungeons or crafting better to focus on than the other.
 

Sonnendieb

Astellian
Jul 1, 2019
102
299
63
The crafted gear in astellia is the same as the gear from dungeons
Realy? Oh... that is a bad thing. In the CBT-1, i haven't no legendary loot from a boss. So i can't match the Equip. And also the Equip from the NPCs. There was to less [Blue Star Jewels] in my inventory. 😁

And there is a way to increase you crafting and gathering. But... may it's a hard and long way
-> https://forum.astellia-mmo.com/threads/guide-astels-first-try.708/post-7740
[Seeker] -> https://forum.astellia-mmo.com/threads/guide-astels-first-try.708/post-7741

Then i hope the crafting equip get change at the release, that this stuff become the best.

Edit:
And another question. Can i get equip from a Boss for the evolution classes? I have no idea.
 
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Ideabulb

Astellian
Jul 5, 2019
71
24
8
Realy? Oh... that is a bad thing. In the CBT-1, i haven't no legendary loot from a boss. So i can't match the Equip. And also the Equip from the NPCs. There was to less [Blue Star Jewels] in my inventory. 😁

And there is a way to increase you crafting an gathering. But... may it's a hard and long way
-> https://forum.astellia-mmo.com/threads/guide-astels-first-try.708/post-7740
[Seeker] -> https://forum.astellia-mmo.com/threads/guide-astels-first-try.708/post-7741

Then i hope the crafting equip get change at the release, that this stuff become the best.
I am planning on making a seperate thread for this Seeker and other things like it.
 

Xovian

Astellian
May 27, 2019
403
439
63
While i did find it a bit strange that XP was not part of the gathering process, especially since you can only take one gathering skill, given the ease of getting to level cap, I'm not sure it's warranted.

Keep in mind, as past games have shown, people in guilds have been known to help people craft to levels that they should not have been able to. I really do hate comparing games, but as some may recall the first person to hit 80 in GW2 did so entirely by crafting. They didn't even have some of the basic quests done from the first area. It was subsequently nerfed, as there were others that soon followed. While I'd agree with the mentality that the general populace might not be willing to just give their crafting mats away so freely, there will always be some that do, and some, as game history shows, can be done on a large scale, and that can create imbalance among guilds and players. Remember one of the reasons they look at Avalon and will be doing so heavily during CBT2, and assign random factions, is they do not want the game reaching a point where one guild rules them all.

I concur that they should remain of equal value between dungeons and crafting. Neither one should be largely superior, and both should remain viable for end game. As far as i know, from what i saw in CBT1, it was. But i did not have enough time to do a full dive into it myself to really say which is better one way or the other. However, i will say, doing dungeons is another way of getting those mats due to the deconstruction of gear. As you are guaranteed drops on each run (for every person solo or group), the amount of gear / drops / mats is much higher than a lot of MMO's., and this can be gotten in a very short amount of time by most MMORPG standards.

For me, this is a wait and see, cause at this point I don't have enough information to make an informed decision as to what feedback to even give. I just know, there's a lot of ways it could turn out. More testing is required, especially with changes coming to CBT2. It had previously stated, that CBT1 was the "base" game, it was to form the baseline. CBT2 will have a number of changes in it, which CM Aethon has recently reaffirmed.

Source:
PvE Progression Testing
For the first 5 days of CBT-1 you will be able to play the game in its default state, this will allow us to measure progression speed, determine problematic areas, and overall give us a baseline for how the various game systems are being used.
 
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Ideabulb

Astellian
Jul 5, 2019
71
24
8
While i did find it a bit strange that XP was not part of the gathering process, especially since you can only take one gathering skill, given the ease of getting to level cap, I'm not sure it's warranted.

Keep in mind, as past games have shown, people in guilds have been known to help people craft to levels that they should not have been able to. I really do hate comparing games, but as some may recall the first person to hit 80 in GW2 did so entirely by crafting. They didn't even have some of the basic quests done from the first area. It was subsequently nerfed, as there were others that soon followed. While I'd agree with the mentality that the general populace might not be willing to just give their crafting mats away so freely, there will always be some that do, and some, as game history shows, can be done on a large scale, and that can create imbalance among guilds and players. Remember one of the reasons they look at Avalon and will be doing so heavily during CBT2, and assign random factions, is they do not want the game reaching a point where one guild rules them all.

I concur that they should remain of equal value between dungeons and crafting. Neither one should be largely superior, and both should remain viable for end game. As far as i know, from what i saw in CBT1, it was. But i did not have enough time to do a full dive into it myself to really say which is better one way or the other. However, i will say, doing dungeons is another way of getting those mats due to the deconstruction of gear. As you are guaranteed drops on each run (for every person solo or group), the amount of gear / drops / mats is much higher than a lot of MMO's., and this can be gotten in a very short amount of time by most MMORPG standards.

For me, this is a wait and see, cause at this point I don't have enough information to make an informed decision as to what feedback to even give. I just know, there's a lot of ways it could turn out. More testing is required, especially with changes coming to CBT2. Wes had previously stated, that CBT1 was the "base" game, it was to form the baseline. CBT2 will have a number of changes in it, which CM Aethon has recently reaffirmed.
The vast majority of the community thinks gathering and crafting gear is not worth it. While some are pushing it as a team thing and you are right there is a largely superior way which is dungeons. Hence why this needs some change.
 

Xovian

Astellian
May 27, 2019
403
439
63
The vast majority of the community thinks gathering and crafting gear is not worth it. While some are pushing it as a team thing and you are right there is a largely superior way which is dungeons. Hence why this needs some change.
Again, I don't have enough data to say one way or another, as crafted items are just as much part of dungeons as the gear drops themselves, due to the amount of gear that you wont use (or cant use), so it will be torn down if it isn't sold on the market. Avalon was previously stated to also be a very large source of material drops, even during Pax interview, so that should also be tested during CBT2 to see if it is indeed, lacking or not. If it is, I'm sure many will give the needed feedback.
 

Ideabulb

Astellian
Jul 5, 2019
71
24
8
Again, I don't have enough data to say one way or another, as crafted items are just as much part of dungeons as the gear drops themselves, due to the amount of gear that you wont use (or cant use), so it will be torn down if it isn't sold on the market. Avalon was previously stated to also be a very large source of material drops, even during Pax interview, so that should also be tested during CBT2 to see if it is indeed, lacking or not. If it is, I'm sure many will give the needed feedback.
I never asked if you have enough data? I feel like the community and I do. Avalon was tested no one reported any crafting materials for gear being dropped in there and if there are I would assume its the Element things not the things you gather.
 

Xovian

Astellian
May 27, 2019
403
439
63
If people were in Avalon they were not testing it under the conditions it will be at. That was expelicitly stated by Wes and also recently by CM Aethon that it is a major part of CBT2. CBT1 was entirely a PvE test, anything gleamed from trying to go into it was nothing we can apply as having any bearing with the game come release. Quote from discord:

Wes 05/17/2019

CBT 1 & 2 Access will be included in pre-orders, given away on media websites, given away on our social media, and we should do one here in this Discord as well. There will be no NDAs, so everything can be streamed.

CBT-1 will have a PVE Focus to make some progression curve adjustments before launch

CBT-2 will have a PvP Focus as well as test and publicly show the cash shop before launch Launch will be this summer of 2019

CBT 1 &2 can be close together due to their seperated targets and limited feedback overlap.
As to CBT1 focus on PvE, it was in the news / announcements:

Also considering from a thread you are familiar with, it also already been stated changes for CBT2 are going to be in. So trying to test something that was not part of the cbt1 test, doesn't have any merit, cause its going to be changed.

So no, no one got anything of value for being in Avalon aside from maybe satisfying some curiosities during CBT1.
We can only wait for CBT2 to make such determinations.
 

Sonnendieb

Astellian
Jul 1, 2019
102
299
63
Avalon... yes you get many craft items from mobs and there was also thing to gather. But i haven't look for wich craft-Lv are these items was.
I was just 4 hours in avalon, for making a couple of quest and looking for ememy.
 

Ideabulb

Astellian
Jul 5, 2019
71
24
8
Avalon... yes you get many craft items from mobs and there was also thing to gather. But i haven't look for wich craft-Lv are these items was.
I was just 4 hours in avalon, for making a couple of quest and looking for ememy.
Are you speaking from the na version or the kr version b/c I saw exactly zero. One or two nodes together is the problem its not enough when you need such large quantities.
 

Sonnendieb

Astellian
Jul 1, 2019
102
299
63
Our CTB-1

Unfortunately, i haven't an screenshot from my inventory. And my gathering-skill wasn't high enough for this area.

Edit:
The screenshot isn't big enough, sry, but you can see there are 23 new types of items in my inventory. This is just from 1 Kill-Quest (2 times 50 mobs).
Of curse there was items like Runes, Star Jewels, crap, equip and craft materials. I think it was a good loot for just 100 kills.
 
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