Legendary Dungeons Stage 1 [Consolidated Feedback] [Updated 10/21]

CM Aethon

Community Manager
Staff Member
Jan 23, 2019
228
856
93


Greetings Astellians,

We’ve received some initial reports regarding the quality of loot being dropped, and ease in which players are completing Legendary Dungeons. In the interest of ensuring this content is performing in the intended manner. We’re now closely monitoring player progression through these dungeons, and will be collecting your direct feedback to be shared with the developers through this thread. We appreciate how active our community is in sharing insights with us, and will continue to do our best to continue improving your Astellia experience.

Please Note: We ask that the feedback within this thread be directed specifically at Legendary Dungeons, as this will greatly help our team to more accurately share your insights.

---
Update [October 14th, 2019]:

Greetings Astellians,

Many of you have taken to the forums and discord, contributing to discussions and sharing helpful insights about your experiences with the recently released Legendary Dungeons. Several well thought out and wonderfully creative ideas have been shared within this thread, and we’ve shared them directly with the development team.

To that end, we’d like to provide you with an update on where things currently stand. As of this posting we’ve begun reviewing several of the potential adjustments with the Dev team. We’re not quite at a stage where we’re comfortable committing to any specific design changes while we hammer out the details, but you have been heard and internal discussions are taking place.

Further information will follow as it becomes available. As always, we appreciate the time and dedication our community invests in enriching the Astellia experience for all.


---
Update [October 21st, 2019]:
Greetings Astellians,

We've been testing and revising a new build for legendary dungeons since last Friday. After a few iterations, we feel the new build is solid enough to bring live with this coming maintenance (10/22). The main things that have been adjusted are the overall difficulty of the Legendary Dungeons, and the drop rate of Legendary Equipment.

The scaling for the overall difficulty was primarily focused on adjustments that we could tune within the limited window we had reserved for getting these adjustments out to our players in a timely manner. Those elements were: Monster Damage, Health Pools, and overall Tankiness (Defenses). It is worth noting that more involved additions are something we are still very much so considering for future adjustments to this content. However, we felt it was necessary to get these changes out quickly to provide a better overall play experience for our community.

In addition to the rise in difficulty, we have increased the drop rate of Legendary Equipment to better reflect the new more challenging environment. The actual rate was increased by approximately 1.2 times the previous rate. We believe players will see a noticeable increase in the rate at which this equipment is obtained. We thank you for your support and encourage you to share your insights with us.
 
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Caeldori

Astellian
Sep 22, 2019
78
20
8
-

PS: Can you also put the same message in the French category? That I can express myself better with my native language?
Legendary dungeons were like that way in kr tho. Difficulty and loot needs to be increased tho.
 

TezMMO

Astellian
May 23, 2019
23
28
13
Please be more understanding as this is a good thing they want to increase drop rate and difficulty...the point of legends was to be a challenge and its not atm at all.

the fact they know it and working to fix it shows more than 99% of the past games in the past 5 years..... be happy they listen and adjust
 

Jaded_Magic

Astellian
Sep 21, 2019
2
3
3
I feel the gap between the tiered dungeons should be wider, right now I feel it is too easy of a Segway from 50 dungeons to Legendary dungeons. My favorite part of dungeons is being forced to learn how each mob works and exactly how much a safe pull is. Already in first day, tanks are obsolete and our top tier assassins can tank them. This could be due to how well we gear our statics but i was told even with the gear we had and comparing to KR that we would be struggling--not 3 pulling the dungeon. I think the recommended CP should at the minimum be 1000 CP higher. Loot table im less worried about as the content alone is what I payed the pre-release package for. I want to have to learn how each mob works and if a mistake is made then we are wiped. We just had this clearing Lvl 4 dungeon before Evolution, even after Evolution its fun because of how much detail and attention is required in skill usage to clear it. My only concern for the dungeon is how easy it is.

My thoughts are to increase difficulty on legendaries. Less players should be able to clear the dungeon in my opinion.

"Let's play it safe" is possible

edit:
After completing Hashmal, I fealt no difference between the legendary and non legendary versions, same size pulls and no strain on the team.
Already 2 pulling Crimson Rock Valley
 
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Xandorai

Astellian
May 27, 2019
108
41
28
First, what is the intended purpose of these "legendary" dungeons? To gear up? Gear up to what though? The recommended CP for Rutless is 6k, without buffs you would need some nice gear, either plussed up or legendary already. Yet, the gear dropping in Rutless is pretty trash for 90% of the people at 6k CP.

I Rutless 10 times or so, and the only reason I see to ever run it again is that it only costs 2pts and drops lvl50 gear. The gear in there is no better than what you would get in the non legendary lvl50 dungeons. So, what is the intended purpose of the legendary Rutless dungeon?

I've not ran the other two at the moment, and have little desire to do so as I imagine the gear drops will be no better than the normal lvl50 dungeons.

To be clear, my runs on Rutless weren't totally useless, and the drops I got could very well be the intended. Yet, if I recall correctly I got 3-4 pieces of heroic gear (only grey/green/blue accessories), 2 heroic jewels, and 1 treasure.
 
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Seraphiel

Astellian
Jul 5, 2019
10
19
3
My two biggest complaints about legendaries would be the lack of any difficulty at all, as well as the drops. You all made the mistake of having a a quest that gave legendary guild before legendary dungeons were even out, as well as other means of getting legendaries, like 'regular' dungeons, and tokens. It largely made legendaries not relevant in a lot of ways, except for treasures, as well as it made them that much easier, and they are easy already. The difficulty of legendary dungeons needs to be increased, and not just in a way that just increases hp/damage. There aren't difficult mechanics to deal with, nor many attacks that are detrimental to anyone. You can pretty much pull the entire dungeon mob wise, face roll the boss, and move on. As far as drops, they are pretty lacking. Good drops SHOULD be rare granted. I definitely think you should not always see a legendary, it would be too easy, people do need to work for it. Also the ratings in the dungeon seem really insignificant. Whatever it is taking into account, you can pretty much always get an S. It should consider more than what it currently is, even a ranking system for them then for pve would be cool.

How to increase the difficulty of dungeons:

Add additional mechanics that are more punishing, should you mess up (same with current.)
Make each boss have both a heal and dps check.
Add an enrage timer to each boss.
Reduce the amount of telegraphs, so people have to learn and just know how to deal with attacks after a certain period of time.
Increase the speed of bosses.
Increase the damage/hp/de/resistances of bosses (but not just this).
Speed up large map mechanics so people have to react faster.
Make mobs be unable to be killed altogether at once.
Reduce the amount of food you can use together (it's really strong actually.)

Because the dungeons are currently so easy, and there are people with legendary gear etc already, there should already be higher tiered content out, as we seem to be way beyond what is currently offered.
 
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Xandorai

Astellian
May 27, 2019
108
41
28
My two biggest complaints about legendaries would be the lack of any difficulty at all, as well as the drops. You all made the mistake of having an a quest that gave legendary guild before legendary dungeons were even out, as well as other means of getting legendaries, like 'regular' dungeons, and tokens. It largely made legendaries not relevant in a lot of ways, except for treasures, as well as it made them that much easier, and they are easy already. The difficulty of legendary dungeons needs to be increased, and not in a way that just increases hp/damage. There aren't difficult mechanics to deal with, nor many attacks that are detrimental to anyone. You can pretty much pull the entire dungeon mob wise, face roll the boss, and move on. As far as drops, they are pretty lacking. Good drops SHOULD be rare granted. I definitely think you should not always see a legendary, it would be too easy, people do need to work for it. Also the ratings in the dungeon seem really insignificant. Whatever it is taking into account, you can pretty much always get an S. It should consider more than what it currently is, even a ranking system for them then for pve would be cool.

How to increase the difficulty of dungeons:

Add additional mechanics that are more punishing, should you mess up (same with current.)
Make each boss have both a heal and dps check.
Add an enrage timer to each boss.
Reduce the amount of telegraphs, so people have to learn and just know how to deal with attacks after a certain period of time.
Increase the speed of bosses.
Increase the damage/hp/def of bosses.
Speed up large map mechanics so people have to react faster.
Make mobs be unable to be killed altogether at once.
Reduce the amount of food you can use together (it's really strong actually.)

Because the dungeons are currently so easy, and there are people with legendary gear etc already, there should already be higher tiered content out, as we seem to be way beyond what is currently offered.
Mostly good, but I did laugh at a lot of the suggestions. Mainly where you suggest "increasing dmg/hp/def" of bosses, after saying not to do that. =) The other good laugh came from "make mobs be unable to be killed altogether at once". Come on, lol.
 

Fox

Astellian
Oct 9, 2019
1
2
3
I think Seraphiel touched on a lot of good ideas. Two additional things I'd like to see are:
1. Increase the trash mob tool kit. Make it so we have to lock down, kite away, dispell debuffs. If there is a healer mob in a pull; that healer mob shouldn't be ignored or AoE'd down with the rest. If you don't interupt/stun that big orc hes gonna go berserk and 1 shot the healer. IMO high end challenging dungeons should require coordinated CC, focus fire, and carefully plan pulls.
2. Have Astels play a bigger roll on how a party handles the above changes. More so than everyone get your Glaciers out so we can AoE stun. We need a Ram out for this pull to dispell, a :shudders: Pisces to silence and root, a Virgo to off tank a mob that buffs mobs near by.
 

Xandorai

Astellian
May 27, 2019
108
41
28
I think Seraphiel touched on a lot of good ideas. Two additional things I'd like to see are:
1. Increase the trash mob tool kit. Make it so we have to lock down, kite away, dispell debuffs. If there is a healer mob in a pull; that healer mob shouldn't be ignored or AoE'd down with the rest. If you don't interupt/stun that big orc hes gonna go berserk and 1 shot the healer. IMO high end challenging dungeons should require coordinated CC, focus fire, and carefully plan pulls.
2. Have Astels play a bigger roll on how a party handles the above changes. More so than everyone get your Glaciers out so we can AoE stun. We need a Ram out for this pull to dispell, a :shudders: Pisces to silence and root, a Virgo to off tank a mob that buffs mobs near by.
I agree. Yet, these are the first tier legendary dungeons, and I think they don't need to be buffed much at all. Many of the ideas suggested here would fit will into the higher tiers. The first tier should probably have more mechanics that you can't quite ignore, but maybe won't be a party wipe.
 
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Terra

Astellian
Sep 20, 2019
901
487
63
i personally think, that there are many fine things in it

the point, that you get good eq through quests is a big plus for me,
since that makes the difference between good/old and not so good/new players a lot less (which is good for balance and fairness), while at the same time allowing enough growth to keep the peaple motivated

the only thing which i have to agree are the drops ... i don'T feel the difference ... maybe it's just again my rng luck ... but ... well

in my opinion it would be good, if the "normal" dungeon dropps heroic,
the tier 1 dungeon dropps "normal" legandarys and the tier two and above should dropp the realy good stuff (like trippl X etc) ...

so that it's a steady growth in danger and reward

as for the dungeons themselfes :
the first question we have to ask is WHAT ... what is the purpose of these dungeons
and what is planned regarding higher tier dungeons for the future

if that is the "end-dungeon" ... than yes, it would feel massively lacking something

if the "normal" dungeons (labeled as character growth) are just the beginning and this dungeon is intended to be a first "stepping stone" into the real dungeons / group activities ... than i'd say it's ok the way it is

becouse yes, many of the mentioned game-mechanics would fit into dungeons ... especially into dungeons of higher difficulty lvl ...

but here it would be realy important,
to first clearify the intended purpose of these dungeons [stepping stone, character development, introduction to the higher dungeons etc] before talking about needed changes
 
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Caeldori

Astellian
Sep 22, 2019
78
20
8
i personally think, that there are many fine things in it

the point, that you get good eq through quests is a big plus for me,
since that makes the difference between good/old and not so good/new players a lot less (which is good for balance and fairness), while at the same time allowing enough growth to keep the peaple motivated

the only thing which i have to agree are the drops ... i don'T feel the difference ... maybe it's just again my rng luck ... but ... well

in my opinion it would be good, if the "normal" dungeon dropps heroic,
the tier 1 dungeon dropps "normal" legandarys and the tier two and above should dropp the realy good stuff (like trippl X etc) ...

so that it's a steady growth in danger and reward

as for the dungeons themselfes :
the first question we have to ask is WHAT ... what is the purpose of these dungeons
and what is planned regarding higher tier dungeons for the future

if that is the "end-dungeon" ... than yes, it would feel massively lacking something

if the "normal" dungeons (labeled as character growth) are just the beginning and this dungeon is intended to be a first "stepping stone" into the real dungeons / group activities ... than i'd say it's ok the way it is

becouse yes, many of the mentioned game-mechanics would fit into dungeons ... especially into dungeons of higher difficulty lvl ...

but here it would be realy important,
to first clearify the intended purpose of these dungeons [stepping stone, character development, introduction to the higher dungeons etc] before talking about needed changes
I have not noticed a real diff in loot besides the treasures. I have seen more drop on one day than the entire launch so far.
 

MaraShibari

Astellian
Sep 30, 2019
16
10
3
Hey all. At first im sorry for my Broken English <3.

I guess balancing the loot is not so Easy. If i would get 1 legendary every run it would be far to much. 1 every 2-5 would be nice.
A constand drop of Violet items is important.
A good reward would be 2 Star Astels every 1-3 run too. This will ensure that people prefer to run. Leg. Because one 2 star Astell is worth 4 normal runs.
This should get better with the difficulty. 1 or 2 star Leg. Dungeon should increase the Astel rarity (stars).

Mechanic wise it would be cool if the Bosses get extra mechanics.
I dont expect the lvl 15-35 Dungeons to be that hard even in the Leg. Version. But the others should be hard but rewarding. Like i said, i guess good Astell reward will help alot to make a run to feel worth the time and fun.

Higher Tier leg. Dungeon. Like 1 Star Legendary or 2 star legendary later should make the run alot harder. Even if the Party is well equiped from the Normal Legendary Dugeons. If the difficulty stays the same in terms of the Party equipment and the difficulty it will become boring fast.
 
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Ninjachicken

Astellian
Oct 6, 2019
23
19
3
A tip to make it it noticeable harder.
1. Remove the indicator for aoe and other boss attacks --> no "red carpet".
2. I dont know if every class has skills to negate dmg. If it is the case every boss should have unavoidable aoe, that 1 Hits you if you dont use your skills at the right moment.
This is what a hard mode was like in another game i played a long time.
 

Terra

Astellian
Sep 20, 2019
901
487
63
so ... i actually would like to make another suggestion

how about letting the players themselfs decide,
how hard their dungeon experiance should be

[for example "red-carpet" yes/no ... monster strenght scale from 0 to 100% etc, etc]

and not [!] giving any additional eq for clearing the "harder" one, only titles [like 100 times hard-dungeon xyz cleared etc]

that way, everyone could select for themselfs, how "hard" they like it,
the newer (or weaker) players wouldn't be locked out of content / would have the fair possibility to "catch up", without creating a gap between hardcore and casual players

while at the same time the "hardcore" players could walk into harder dungeons and show everyone via titles, what they're made off

just my two cent ...
 

Reggie

Astellian
Sep 22, 2019
93
36
18
i am not lvl 50 yet (lucky me) but my comment to what i read here, is: i am not surprised.

it is obvious that the developing efford of this game was at absolute minimum:
- fewest possible classes,
- no variations (pre class evolution),
- no race variation,
- most possible simplicity of quest,
- just one start-area,
- just one whole tube from start to endgame that all player has to quest through
- actionless and oldschool fight system with tab-target-system
and last but not least
- simple boss mechanics

I wonder why a new game that could be inspired from many great games and could take only the best mechanics is so minimalitic in its core.
It seems that the developer don't have any experience with mmorpgs but had that idea with pets. Every hero should have pets, his own little group. this is so unique. let's take a fairly uptodate game engine and make a game. voila Astellia.

don't take me wrong! this is NOT mememe, complaint or criticism.
I knew what to expect and i choose to play anyways (even i knew many way way better games) cause i like to test everythng new....

That's why i am not surprised.
 
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Kilvorian

Astellian
Sep 22, 2019
59
49
18
So, here is my thoughts as to why this has happened. I may be right on the money, or I may be way off as I did not play in CBT but did watch some videos.

In beta they did a small period where everyone was insta leveled to 50 and allowed to try out legendary dungeons in full legendary gear. In this situation a lot of people struggled heavily to clear the dungeons. So the devs probably thought the difficulty was fine. What they did not take into account was the fact that most of these people had not played their classes for very long at all and had next to zero idea how to play their classes at 50. So this caused the testing to be inaccurate. The group of people doing them now have played their characters for weeks and know how to play them(more or less) and are able to blow through the dungeons. Also the CBT was done without taking class evolution into account.

In terms of the loot, this next tier of dungeons needs to drop some gear. Currently the only reason to run the legendary difficulty is to try for the treasure drops since the drop rate of legendary gear in legendary dungeons currently is so low that it may as well be non-existent.(yes, legendary gear does drop but its like a 0.1% chance) Id like to point out that the RNG system of stats on the gear that we get is enough all by itself to warrant running these dungeons for months to try to get that perfect piece of gear with the previous non-stealth nerfed drop rate. With the stealth nerf yes crafted gear becomes more of a thing but again we have to rely on RNG to roll gear with the right stats. Bring the legendary drop rates back to their pre-launch rates for legendary dungeons please.

TL : DR- Make Legendary dungeons harder and more rewarding.
 

iAMFETT

Astellian
Oct 1, 2019
5
7
3
The biggest problem about the Legendary Dungeons and their drops is the progression curve.

If I play a MMO I want my time spent to feel rewarding, but right now it feels like I m wasting it for nothing. Item Progression is gated behind a insane amount of Asper needed to upgrade "non existing" items, wich are also heavily based on RNG and thats ok , but if u combine it with a freaking poorly drop rate , ppl will be bored fast.
We dont need to get Legendarys on every run, but we need to get something to aim for. Bosses in Legendary Dungeons could drop Holy Order Symbols , so we are not forced to do boring Daylies and kill mobs with 81928319283k HP or fight with 3 other Partys to get 1 Loot Item out of 5 ._. .
The time you spent to get a Legendary Item right now is far to huge, so PLS increase Drop Rate and let us have some fun , looting Items and pray to RNGESUS to get the right stats.
 
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sycx2

Astellian
Sep 29, 2019
20
12
3
Just make a short calculation. We got random stats. So let's say out of 100 legendaries there are 20 for your class (5 classes. If it is connected with sub class 2 it's like 20 out of 300...). From this 20,
19 don't have the right stats because rng... And this isn't even sure... Just statistics. Now you have to consider that if you drop legendary it is not always the right item. Let's say you already have some legendary then it takes even more time. And now just take the base case and tell me how long you need for 100 legendaries...

So pls do something about the drop rate... Without rng stats that would not be so much of a problem. But you did it and I like it. We just need a better drop chance.


And to mention the difficulty of legendary dungeons. I get why ppl don't like it. But I consider it getting better. So you should've named this hard and make another which is really legendary and needs much skill, a good group, knowing mechanics and gives way more quality loot.

P.s. I don't think it's a bad thing that we got the old dungeons with new mechanics. Not saying it wouldn't be nice to get more new dungeons but it's nice to walk the 15 ones again in hard mode ^^

Greets sycx2
 

ForestWolf

Astellian
May 26, 2019
127
157
43
30
The feedback we can provide really depends on when you bring out the next tier. I mean, at the moment there is no point in really going hardcore on Legendary dungeons, since the drop looted in there is barely any better than the normal level 50 dungeons.
If BE&A releases the next Tier of Legendary dungeons also soon (for example) next Tuesday, then the current dungeons can be considered something to get players slowly in the Legendaries and not really as best loot option, but then T2 Legendaries need to actually drop Legendary items regularly.

It is quite clear that the drop rate in normal dungeons was also nerfed during the maintenance a week ago (01.10.2019) without any notice, which is quite strange that the publisher thought the players won't notice when the farming dungeons used to drop in average 1 legendary item per run (my group got fully geared in like 5 days with all needed items) and after the maintenance our whole Codex guild (150 members) didnt see a single legendary drop. Of course they did it in preperation for the legendary dungeons incoming, but then the communication has to be clear and transparent, so please BE&A - whatever you change on the dungeons or loot, please be transparent with us else it will backfire if this "sneacky" changes continue.

~ForestWolf
 

Flume

Astellian
Sep 11, 2019
10
8
3
While I agree with most of the feedbacks, I'd also love to add something here :

This is just TIER 1 legendary - it could as well be an introduction to legendary dungeons, if i'm not mistaken, legendary dungeons go all the way up to 5* (please correct me if i'm wrong) so please, do not lose hope just yet.

As Forest pointed out, its all up to the pace of the content release now, if T2 T3 T4 come shorty after the patch we had yesterday, i'll sure be glad.