SHOULD ATRA TOWER POINTS BE REMOVED?

Terala

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May 22, 2020
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and in turn making the higher zender rewards yet again only available via pvp'ing ... no thanks
also it wouldn't change anything about the tread creators worry of the "surpreme commander gone mad" thing
 

Towi

Astellian
Jun 12, 2019
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the stones can be weakened in the pve phase and hunting points reduced, no one speaks against but giving pve ppl decision-making in a pvp area is negligent
Hmm.. The Problem is if no PVE Player would go into Avalon there would be noone to Kill anymore !

i think the only way is to ballance that again. And rework Avalon again.

If the PVP players want more rewards for PVP why not idk. If i get low Zender i will just only do my Daylies and thats it.
 
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Pandalicious

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May 31, 2019
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and in turn making the higher zender rewards yet again only available via pvp'ing ... no thanks
also it wouldn't change anything about the tread creators worry of the "surpreme commander gone mad" thing
So taking a stone is PvPing? I dont have to understand that non existant logic. You can also just let them kill you and dont fight back, so technically you didnt PvP because you didnt attack them ;)
 

Terala

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May 22, 2020
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So taking a stone is PvPing?
if you can get pushed into pvp at any time, (becouse you want to make it only possible during wartime) : yes,
also the "just play cannon fooder and let yourself get killed" mentality is not exactly helpful there

for the pvp players i think it would ruin the fun of it
[well, ok ... there may be some killers out there, who can only fight an enemy in pve skillset ...
but i hope, that the true pvp'ers out there would want to have interesting fights ... not one-shots]

meanwhile you would make the pve players leave, if all they could do is getting killed and pushed into unwanted pvp ...
so yeah, it's just like towi said
 
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Towi

Astellian
Jun 12, 2019
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So taking a stone is PvPing? I dont have to understand that non existant logic. You can also just let them kill you and dont fight back, so technically you didnt PvP because you didnt attack them ;)
If you can do the Stones Only in PVP Time and all PVP Players can see on the map what stone was made there would be pvp at any stone and only pvp players who win could take the stones.

So maybe that would help ? You would force People into pvp. That can be good or Bad if you force someone to do something most off the Time People just dont do that anymore.
 

Falconer_Joanna

Astellian
Sep 28, 2019
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What's really ironic is that this argument is only taking place since the Devs upped the zender rewards and have some valuable zender shop items thus making Avalon more popular. So congratz Devs your moves to make Avalon more desirable are definitely working, keep it up.

As for the OP, we have a popular saying in my other favorite game - HTFU. You don't like someone 'stealing' your stones right under your nose - then take them during wartime. Easiest possible solution, and it even exists in game right now. Has it happened to me? Sure, I just laugh it off and move on. If the Devs are reading this thread, please spend your time making targeting easier. Trying to target a specific enemy in a pile is very frustrating, and makes target calling much harder than it should be. As for the OP, your amount of salt and whining probably makes quite a few people really want to do this to you for the entertainment value alone. Lets us know when this happens again, a few extra laughs never hurts.
 
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eztellia

Astellian
Jul 28, 2020
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1st: I believe there is something wrong with your eye balls, this is all about N.A server

2nd: Kojo is right, you, a guy who know nothing about this content, did not bother to spend just a few minutes to read the in-game Avalon wiki, yet acting like you know everything, posting bs that making us feel that we are playing a completely different game

3rd: Your understanding about the term "PVER" is completely wrong

What is "PVER", a player who's able to complete all dgs within time benchmark, doing bosses but not so actively involve himself in PVP content is a Pver. People with full T2 gears who grinding towers 24/7, afking during raid stone capture and yet unable to run a library smoothly, are called "brainless grinders". You sound like this kind of player, btw.

Now, back to the topic, removing points from tower grinding will not prevent Pver to enter Avl and to do quest at all, you can even farm guards during war time for faction tokens to upgrade the 3 new Astels (which, depend on your faction of the week)

So, why pvers must have those towers for Zenders as the "COUNTERPART" that you constantly crying about?

Again Kojo is right, you are either trolling or purposely ruining the game, whatever you posted here is as good as saying that A PART-TIME CASHIER SHOULD EARN MORE INCOMES THAN Warren Buffet in real life.

In short, both hunting points from towers and mobs should be removed for a fair and positive gaming environment.
 
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Terala

Astellian
May 22, 2020
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thanks for your concern, my eyes are perfectly fine
but maybe we could give your brain a little exercice, please try to mark the correct answers with an [x]

i have said that :
- exactly these towers have to be the counterpart [ ]
- (pve/pvp) should give equal ammounts of zender for equal time-consumption [x]
- towers and mobgrinding (with diminishing returns at rising ranks and massively boosted during pvp-times) are currently the only way, to obtain zender outside of pvp gameplay [x]
- as long, as there is no other possibility, to earn zender without pvp i'm against taking out these gameplay elements [x]

starting from the simple split between pve and pvp points,

going over to a pvp opt out function [for example via a 4th, "neutral" avalon faction (individually selactable for each player regardless of his guilds faction before the start of a avalon weak)

with the currently existing factions gameplay tailored more towards the wishes and needs of the pvp players
and the 4th factions points tailored towards pve gameplay, (with a faction bonus in between the winning and loosing pvp factions)]

or a colloseum / tower-defance type of gameplay element as counterpart to the arena
(and since today you're suggestion, to implement zender rewards into a possible hard-mode of dungeons)

it doesn't have to be exactly these current towers as counterpart,
all i want is a fair counterpart allowing players who are unhappy or don't like (for whatever reason) this games pvp mechanics,
to obtain the pve relevant stuff [dungeon tickets, astel, skins] in an equal ammount of time

if that's acchieved via stones, via a colloseum / dungeon element, via a pve copy of avalon
*shrug* ...


Now, back to the topic, removing points from tower grinding will not prevent Pver to enter Avl and to do quest at all, you can even farm guards during war time for faction tokens to upgrade the 3 new Astels (which, depend on your faction of the week)
have you ever thought,
that a non pvp-player might not want to get constantly pushed into pvp during wartime at all ?

is as good as saying that A PART-TIME CASHIER SHOULD EARN MORE INCOMES THAN Warren Buffet in real life.
or as saying, that a regular army general should be able to pay his bills the same way as a regular city-mayor
and that neither the city major nor the army general should get locked out of public health care just becouse of the work he choose

of course a national kick-box / football / [insert] - champion will earn more income, than a 3rd rate never heard about
of course the president will earn a higher salery, than some village-major

but the salery of the president will be higher than the one of a 3rd rate never heard about
and the salery of a kick-box champion will be higher than the one of some small 10 inhabitans vilage guy ...

haven't said anything about that one, have i ... ?
but what you miss is, that there are several different possibilitys and ways to earn that income ...
and that you can choose, with which one you want to try you're luck


as for the middle part of you're posting :
i will definitly not start a conversation about what i know or don't know about this games mechanics with you here since that would be 100% off topic
 

eztellia

Astellian
Jul 28, 2020
44
17
8
thanks for your concern, my eyes are perfectly fine
but maybe we could give your brain a little exercice, please try to mark the correct answers with an [x]

i have said that :
- exactly these towers have to be the counterpart [ ]
- (pve/pvp) should give equal ammounts of zender for equal time-consumption [x]
- towers and mobgrinding (with diminishing returns at rising ranks and massively boosted during pvp-times) are currently the only way, to obtain zender outside of pvp gameplay [x]
- as long, as there is no other possibility, to earn zender without pvp i'm against taking out these gameplay elements [x]

starting from the simple split between pve and pvp points,

going over to a pvp opt out function [for example via a 4th, "neutral" avalon faction (individually selactable for each player regardless of his guilds faction before the start of a avalon weak)

with the currently existing factions gameplay tailored more towards the wishes and needs of the pvp players
and the 4th factions points tailored towards pve gameplay, (with a faction bonus in between the winning and loosing pvp factions)]

or a colloseum / tower-defance type of gameplay element as counterpart to the arena
(and since today you're suggestion, to implement zender rewards into a possible hard-mode of dungeons)

it doesn't have to be exactly these current towers as counterpart,
all i want is a fair counterpart allowing players who are unhappy or don't like (for whatever reason) this games pvp mechanics,
to obtain the pve relevant stuff [dungeon tickets, astel, skins] in an equal ammount of time

if that's acchieved via stones, via a colloseum / dungeon element, via a pve copy of avalon
*shrug* ...




have you ever thought,
that a non pvp-player might not want to get constantly pushed into pvp during wartime at all ?



or as saying, that a regular army general should be able to pay his bills the same way as a regular city-mayor
and that neither the city major nor the army general should get locked out of public health care just becouse of the work he choose

of course a national kick-box / football / [insert] - champion will earn more income, than a 3rd rate never heard about
of course the president will earn a higher salery, than some village-major

but the salery of the president will be higher than the one of a 3rd rate never heard about
and the salery of a kick-box champion will be higher than the one of some small 10 inhabitans vilage guy ...

haven't said anything about that one, have i ... ?
but what you miss is, that there are several different possibilitys and ways to earn that income ...
and that you can choose, with which one you want to try you're luck


as for the middle part of you're posting :
i will definitly not start a conversation about what i know or don't know about this games mechanics with you here since that would be 100% off topic
Nah, I doubt that your eyes are perfectly fine. I never say remove tower points should be removed for EU server and you are clearly unable to read the simply in-game guides.

You don't know what "counterpart" means as well. Farming mobs during war time is a counterpart, while farming towers are meaningless grinding that brainless grinders like yourself might grind that 24/7 and never got sick of it.

You can kill another faction's guards to earn points and faction tokens to upgrade your 3 new astels by chickening out like a XXXX and not helping your faction to capture stones (that give you even more hunting points + quests unlock, which is the right play style)

Many quests in there do give points alone with decent rewards. However, you purposely not mentioning them at all. By posting bs that towers and mobs farming are currently the only way to obtain Zens outside of Pvp and you actually think that someone will believe your bs. Man, just stop trolling or twisting the facts.

From what I can tell, you are playing a different game and it's difficult to understand your suggestions, maybe you should download the "right" game file before entertaining us with massive misspellings and Minecrafter's logics.
 
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Pandalicious

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May 31, 2019
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Nah, I doubt that your eyes are perfectly fine. I never say remove tower points should be removed for EU server and you are clearly unable to read the simply in-game guides.

You don't know what "counterpart" means as well. Farming mobs during war time is a counterpart, while farming towers are meaningless grinding that brainless grinders like yourself might grind that 24/7 and never got sick of it.

You can kill another faction's guards to earn points and faction tokens to upgrade your 3 new astels by chickening out like a XXXX and not helping your faction to capture stones (that give you even more hunting points + quests unlock, which is the right play style)

Many quests in there do give points alone with decent rewards. However, you purposely not mentioning them at all. By posting bs that towers and mobs farming are currently the only way to obtain Zens outside of Pvp and you actually think that someone will believe your bs. Man, just stop trolling or twisting the facts.

From what I can tell, you are playing a different game and it's difficult to understand your suggestions, maybe you should download the "right" game file before entertaining us with massive misspellings and Minecrafter's logics.
Terra - unfortunatly- plays the same game but she wants it to turn 180° and basically be a different game ..
 

killua

Astellian
Jul 1, 2020
48
21
8
the way i see it is, as everyone has mentioned, Avalon is a PVPVE type zone, however, Avalon at the current state, PVE player gets more zenders, so where does that leave the PVP players?

For the sake of the argument, lets just assume the atra towers only give 4000 hunting points.
So, one PVE player, could solo 1 tower and peace time just fine (also, assume no toxic action at play here)

On the other hand, PVP player, who wants to earn 4000 points, need to solo almost 3 players at the same level, and win them all.
Yes, there are afk players that you could kill, but also, there is a risk of you getting killed as well. But lets just say, you can solo 3 player and get that 4000 points. But the next time you see these 3 players, you kill points is halved. 3rd time? No reward.
It gets worse in groups/expeditions, where the points could be only 100s or 10s.

SO,

while people are saying that PVE player should get a slice of cake, which is totally fine with me, but PVP players shouldn't be penalised here?
People work hard to get Royal Guard Captain, General, Hero, their kill points at 100k, but thats only 1/5 of what the PVE players are getting for doing towers only. See the problem here?

Nobody is forcing PVE players to do PVP, but where do PVP players get a say in this?

It's ok that the score is not removed, but please, set a score limit on Atra Stone farming PLEASE
 

Terala

Astellian
May 22, 2020
561
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Terra - unfortunatly- plays the same game but she wants it to turn 180° and basically be a different game ..
eztellia wants the atra-stone points removed [180° turn] ,
terra says, that this would be a bad idea, since non pvp'er wouldn't have any chance to get good ammounts of zender then,
since mobs and atra stones are the only activitys outside of pvp gameplay to earn zender [and even they give much higher rewards during pvp-times]

terra wishes for the possibility of pve and pvp to give equal ammounts of zender within an equal ammount of time consumption
and says, that the problem isn't the atra towers, but the way, the points are distributed

terra asks, what the devs thought, when they implemented the " the higher you're points, the less you're rewards for mobs " mechanics into the game and suggests , to adjust the stone mechanics to work the same way as the mob-mechanics

but yes, it's not eztellia, who wants the 180° turn,
it's terra, who wants a different game

suuure


People work hard to get Royal Guard Captain, General, Hero, their kill points at 100k, but thats only 1/5 of what the PVE players are getting for doing towers only. See the problem here?
in terms of zender : see my answer above
in terms of other rewards (new astel / treasures) ...

how many astel do you get for ... let's say hero ?
and you have to calculate into it, that [thanks to unsyncron reset timers between weeklys and avalon reset] you get them twice a season / week, without any additional afford at all

Nobody is forcing PVE players to do PVP, but where do PVP players get a say in this?
... yes and no ...

pvp gives additionaly high rewards of the new astel,
and you get twice the pve points during pvp times

so farming 20 hours during pve time equals farming 10 hours farming in pvp time [not to mention the massiv boosted loot rates ... during pvp time you drop starjewel after starjewel ... in pve time ... nothing ...]


what would realy be needed is
a) a counterpart to earn zender outside of pvp activitys [for example a colloseum redesign, using the same point system as the duel-arena]
b) a adjustment of towerpoints towards mob-points and
c) the possibility, to kill [high ammount of] towers / mobs for a "pve rank" (similar to the current pvp rank) , with equal ammounts of astel ...
and than let the player choose, if he wants his reward from his pvp activity, or his pve activity [either / or , not both]
 
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killua

Astellian
Jul 1, 2020
48
21
8
in terms of zender : see my answer above
in terms of other rewards (new astel / treasures) ...

how many astel do you get for ... let's say hero ?
and you have to calculate into it, that [thanks to unsyncron reset timers between weeklys and avalon reset] you get them twice a season / week, without any additional afford at all
well, are these astels useful? sure they are unique, but zender can get you 5 star astels that you actually use , while these are just 10 points per?

yes, you have to calculate into it the resets, but what if you are in the same faction few times in a role? with extra effort, (no hunting points from stone quests, weeklys), you still falling behind pve person?

I dont see the logic here, I'm sorry
 

Terala

Astellian
May 22, 2020
561
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yes, you have to calculate into it the resets, but what if you are in the same faction few times in a role?
we had exactly that problem since literally day 1 of avalon,

in the beginning of avalon, we got matched for several month ! into the same faction over and over again,
while others got to switch each and every week (and got the coins double during that time)

i already critiziced that from the start,
and the "solution" for it would be rather simple ...

all, they'd need to do would be to set the reset timer of avalon = reset timer of avalon weeklys ... problem solved
i realy don't understand, why they failed (or don't want to) change that

a weekly is a weekly,
neiter meant to nor designed to be done in a day

and especially now, with the addition of new astels into it,
that topic gains importance again in my opinion
[especially since it's not even during the weekend ... but on a f*ing monday ... not everyone has the time to do the stuff intended to be done during the whole week in a single day]

so yes, i realy hope, they'll rethink that decicion


but to stay on you're topic,
lately it actually got better with the (double matching) of factions ...
but i can't say, if it's due to a matchmaking change or due to pure luck

so yes, there are these situations,
but they shouldn't happen permanently anymore ...
so you still get out with a massive plus on astel [especially for the higher ranks, if you can get them a second time]


as for you're other question :
yes, these astel are actually usefull

for one, the ammount of astel stars you have directly influences many factors
[number of points, ammount of ap, waiting time for summons]

on top of that some of these astel have quite nice deck effects [for example technician] ...
that they're magical astel (and their skills) could also prove quite a nice addition to your reportoir

but most important :
to get an astel from 0 to 8 you literally need as much points as you need, to get one from 8 to 9 stars
so yes, these astel are usefull in several ways

while these are just 10 points per?
10 points per ?
i think it was what ... 150 points for captain ... 300 for general ? something like that
so 450 ... that twice a week ... makes 900 points already ... only for these two ranks ...
and there i haven't even calculated the higher or lower ranks

what astel-star grade would that be again ?

as for the "5 star astel" ... that's just in theory,
you get a random selection of cards [so you can't realy choose, which one actually get's higher starred],
if you're unlucky, you can also have only 1 and 2 stars in it [the 5 stars are actually kinda reaaaly rare in there]

and on avarage, you get out a little lower, than from putting these zender into dungeon runs
[without the possibility, to choose, which astel you want to go into]

[also, the "average player" won't get the extreme rewards of rank 1-5 ... and between top 50 (via pvp) or top 50 (via pve) ... it's the same ammount of zender rewards for both too, regardless of how the points are aquired

so a real zenderbonus is only "in it" for the top ... 10 maybe ... these are the players, who realy get out with more zender
at the same time, someone reaching rank general also goes out between 450-900 points higher (which approximatly equals the ammount of astel you'd get via one or two 900 zender 3-astelpack) ]

(ontop of that you have the entirely pvp exclusive arena, which can give you up to 1200 zender to)
 
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Terala

Astellian
May 22, 2020
561
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eddit : to give you the actual math behind it

1 dungeon-ticket costs you 15 zender,
2 dungeon tickets equal 1 obtainable astel

so 30 you have to calculate 30 zender per 10 astel points

rank 1 of the winner faction gets 1500*2 so 3000 zender rewards
so 1000 astel points

rank 1 of the loser faction gets 1500
so 500 astel point

so that means, that rank 1 ! in the ranking
already gets approximatly [depending on winning / loosing faction] the number of astels, you'd get via a double general ranking

now lets look at it for ... rank 10

1050 ... 350 points in the loosing faction, 700 in the winning faction
how many points did we get again via captain + general + captain + general ?


and than let's go a little bit further :

i recently had a character in the loosing faction,
he made not many points ... i think rank ninty something [easily acchievable even entirely without pve]

the reward he got (in the loosing faction) for that ... 500 zender
so the difference between an (nearly unplayed) character and the winner there are a whooping 1k points [loosing faction] or 2k points [winning faction]

1k points = 333 astelpoint difference
2k points = 666 astel points difference

so about 1/3 less astelpoints, than what you'd get for you're double-weekly general rank,
for getting rank 1 !

as for rank 10 ... 1050 - 500 = 550 (losing faction) or 2100 - 1000 = 1100 (winning faction)
so there we now have a difference of a "whooping" 183 or 366 points ... limited to 10 players per faction !

that's already less, then you get for you're general ranking [with fixed points, regardless of how much others do]
 

Aang

Astellian
Sep 18, 2019
114
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all, they'd need to do would be to set the reset timer of avalon = reset timer of avalon weeklys ... problem solved
i realy don't understand, why they failed (or don't want to) change that
Avalon ist paused in tuesday because thats maintenance day.
 

Terala

Astellian
May 22, 2020
561
329
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Avalon ist paused in tuesday because thats maintenance day.
i'm not talking about the pause on tuesday,

i'm talking about the fact, that avalon closes in the night between monday and tuesday,
while the weekly quests reset in the night from sunday to monday

thus opening up the possibility, to do these weeklys again a second time

the fact alone, that you can turn in you're "reach rank xyz" twice a week [without any additional afford ... just one klick on the quest npc] should be quite significant

especially now, that these quests give astel,
players who are on the lucky side [and get into another faction each and every week] will get quite the massive advantage bec of that

at the same time players, who frequently get matched into the same faction will have a massive disadvantage


ontop of that it "pushes" players into the unneccacary stress of trying to do weeklys in a single day [especialy, since it's a monday ... not everyone has the time, to do weeklys on a single day

so if you get matched into another faction next week, you get out with an additional weekly / reach rank xyz / stonequest
at the same time, if you get matched into the same faction ... what reason do you even have to enter avalon in that case ?

take us for example ...
we got matched into the same faction again this week ...
already have finished our reach rank xyz thanks to the unsynchron reset times ...

so we could kill and kill in avalon [same for the side-area and stone quests] ... without getting any kind of reward for it ...
so for what even enter anymore in such a week ... ?


so again : i fail to understand,
why the reset of avalon and the reset of avalon-weekly quests are at different times,
 

Aang

Astellian
Sep 18, 2019
114
61
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because weekly quest are programmed to reset on monday thats it. not hard to understand imo.