Soloing New Solo Dungeons

PlayingMyLastMMOs

Astellian
Sep 24, 2019
102
74
28
@Freggel You have to admit there is one thing you said, that is not correct, that probably cause some people to assume scholars were absolutely overpowered:

  • SUMM ~ 8500 HP (as we see on screenshot)
In every MMORPG:
  • in 1v1 PvP: a character that can heal himself has advantages vs character that can't - Why? - because every damage healer causes to non-healer brings healer near to his win, but to kill a healer you have to take his whole HP down, without that he heal himselft up.
  • in solo PvE: the most problem of healing characters is to do enought dmg (for example to go through a dungeon in short time), if healer is doing enought dmg, so time is not a problem anymore, obliviosly he can esier do every dungeon, because he can heal himself
Looks like you have no idea what a typical decent pvp healer usually build and your statements typically sound like a guy who has less than a week of play.

PS: Healers are well-known for its pvp unbalance since CBT, shaman and oracle esp

One of my friend said shaman is a single target Wiz (before patch) with a full heal and couple insane high dps combo that requires no cast time. It is still indeed true, even for now.

1: With the its armo debuff spell, you can simply get knocked down and get one shot as sin or archer,

2: Mage with just a bit higher magDef might last longer, but at the end, you either run out of MP, or slowly killed by it,

3: Their base def and hp are also ridiculously high still that making us to feel, " TF, we even need a tank to run dungeons or party Arena "

4: Everyweek of Avalon, esp before the ridiculous buffs on Archer and Sins, shaman, oracle are the only classes that can ez hit indomit in N.A server

Now, let's back to the topic

1st: The thing about healer's unbalance is not just said by me, many have complained about it in the past

2nd: Top PVP shaman, oracle should be full con build always, that instant full heal spell has nothing to do with WIL or any other stat (With speaker triggered, wow even more broken)

3rd: You are not eligible to judge others whether they are right or not, when you are inexperienced, and if you playing in EU server a place that is far less competitive than N.A, YOU SHOULD KNOW YOUR PLACE THEN

PPS: Yup, we are talking about the same game, and I assume you are play in that easy server, when I say healer can easily hit 20k hp (W/O any food buff), or even above at this stage, T2, boy. It is because I see those players everyday. And there is at least 5 or more in N.A currently. Including one of my decent healer friend and few from top Kr guild.
In short, a real balance is needed against healer class. But to achieve absolute balance, the rest of class have to be adjusted too. But one thing you are right about it is that this is a MMO, so what should I expect, a white-knight can play many alts, so it is always a win-win situation for him, problem solved, EZ PZ
 
Last edited:

Terala

Astellian
May 22, 2020
478
269
63
4: Everyweek of Avalon, esp before the ridiculous buffs on Archer and Sins, shaman, oracle are the only classes that can ez hit indomit in N.A aida
meanwhile it's always the mages, who get the most zender at the end of the day ;)

3rd: You are not eligible to judge others whether they are right or not, when you are inexperienced, and if you playing in EU server a place that is far less competitive than N.A, YOU SHOULD KNOW YOUR PLACE THEN
yeah, he play on EU server as a mage ranked second place within his faction last weeks avalon ...
but true, he plays on EU-server ... he should know his place then ... *head meets wall*
 
Last edited:

Kobe

Astellian
Jan 25, 2020
250
179
43
Healers can do more difficult content than damage dealers, but DD can do easy content much faster than healers :D
I wonder how fast a healer can clear solo Hash? Not too fast I bet!
 

Terala

Astellian
May 22, 2020
478
269
63
Healers can do more difficult content than damage dealers, but DD can do easy content much faster than healers :D
I wonder how fast a healer can clear solo Hash? Not too fast I bet!
solo hash can be cleared quite fast ...
(as shaman you have you're totem) + eligos/braga ...
you have high single target for the bosses and can pull a pull/die/rez once, which also saves time

but yes ... as healer you have literally zero aoe ... and with you're cc's you're also way more limited than other characters ...
.oO( horseman two ... run through dungeon ... meteor, meteor, meteor ... all's dead )
and if i see how well my (ungeared) assasin kills the event mobs compared to my (equally ungeared) healer i'm just kinda left stunned xD

so in terms of farming ... dD's are way stronger than i will ever be
[which can be seen in the avalon rankings and may be a point to note, since legy gear can drop infield now]

also the "more difficult content" might or might not be true ... but at what cost ? ...
how long do you take as a healer, to clear that dungeon ... and what rewards would you have gotten as dD within the same time if you'd run any of the other solo dungeons available to you ... ?

take the video of freggel for example ...

23 minutes for a B-run of a solo dungeon ... with loot intended for a 1* solo-dungeon ...
that's pretty much the time, he'd take for 2-3 runs library ... with library loot ...
that's pretty much the time, a group of dD's run lagash/hall or literally any other 2* dungeon several times ...
 

Freggel

Astellian
Oct 14, 2019
32
28
18
@Freggel You have to admit there is one thing you said, that is not correct, that probably cause some people to assume scholars were absolutely overpowered: At least this is how u can do it as Healer.
You are not running the dungeons as healer, if you run them with this stats like on screenshot - you are on full DD-build.
U are right in one way, but think about how u can build up a healer, and what would make sense. Even as a full DMG Healer i can heal way more than enough for evry dngn. PvP also. A cleric gains compared to Oracle 7k MP and Status effectiveness. The more mana, def buff and better Heals, make it a real threat in pvp when playing on DMG. Only downside is the lower burst, but he has litterly 0 manaproblems (compared to my playstyle), more tankyness and stronger heals, while haveing the same stats (almost) as Oracle. so the skills both classes have (like Divine Flash or Punishement) deal equaly the same dmg.
I tried Mansion on my build as Cleric and the time surely wasnt the prob, but i got unlucky at the spider fight and didnt try after that.
Sure u have to play on full DMG but what are the upsides of playing on full heal?
As long as u know when to heal who, it rly doesnt matter how much Spellpower u have. If u heal 2k or 2,7k HP with the same heal doesnt make the real difference as long as u can maintain the HP of ur party, and if the CC is good, u dont even have to heal at all, so why dont do dmg?
In evry good MMO there are some diffs in the classes. DD (single target, Aoe, DoT). Tank (DD-Tank, Def-Tank, Buff-Tank). Other (Supporter like Healer, Buffer etc.)
When i think of the roles of playstyle in this game in my opinion is (or should be) the healer the class that is supporting the party by helping them out clearing a dngn better/easier.
But how can he/she manage this?
1. Just Healing works, but get boring if u dont even have to heal. (Just my opinion)
2. Helping the party out by debuffing the enemy or buffing the party to boost the Overall DMG.
That would be the shaman (better explained there). Use google transale if u cant speak german :)


I decided to go for the 2nd, to boost the overall dmg of the party.
Evry playstyle has up's and down's.(such as mine). The downside of a Full Healer is, that he/she perhaps wont be able to do it within the time.
But that doesnt mean i am no healer, I am a supporter.
To come back to ur first assumption on that i am running not as healer but as a full DD. That is incorrect. I am running as a supporter.:cool:
 

Falconer_Joanna

Astellian
Sep 28, 2019
140
81
28
Actually watching those videos, one thing does stand out, the scholar can use a lot of skills while moving. It appears almost all of the scholar's high damage skills can be cast while moving. The archer is the opposite, all our high damage skills require us to stop moving. The archer really has just normal rotation skills (4 or 5) that can be cast while moving. Rush can only be used a few times to gain distance, the nerf to evasive arrow (raising c/d from 8 to 20 sec) has really limited our mobility and it shows.
 

Darkey

Astellian
Mar 23, 2020
69
70
18
@Freggel it was not a critic - playing scholar as DD is absolutely valid, but if you call it "healer" people understand it wrong. And sure - i'm also a supporter, I support my healer by doing dmg and killing people as mage :ROFLMAO:

Healers are well-known for its pvp unbalance since CBT, shaman and oracle esp
Because people overestimate themself and think if they lose 1v1 against a healer or can't do same PvE challanges as healer, it's not baceuse their gear is not that good or the healer-player just playing better, but only because healer are overpowered at all.
One of my friend said shaman is a single target Wiz (before patch) with a full heal and couple insane high dps combo that requires no cast time. It is still indeed true, even for now.
What an agrument - "one of my friend said" - one of my freinds is an assasin. He is running with 1400+ critrate and 1400+ critdmg with own classbuff. Show me a scholar who could get such values.
1: With the its armo debuff spell, you can simply get knocked down and get one shot as sin or archer,
If you are running as glass canon DD, everything can oneshot you.
2: Mage with just a bit higher magDef might last longer, but at the end, you either run out of MP, or slowly killed by it,
A mage runs out of MP in 1v1? This mage is doiung something wrong.
3: Their base def and hp are also ridiculously high still that making us to feel, " TF, we even need a tank to run dungeons or party Arena "
Their base def and hp is nearly the same as of a mage, so the lowest possible in game. Oracle become some additional pdef till last patch, but not anymore.
4: Everyweek of Avalon, esp before the ridiculous buffs on Archer and Sins, shaman, oracle are the only classes that can ez hit indomit in N.A server
I'm on EU server so I have no clue why NA archers and sin are so bad...
1st: The thing about healer's unbalance is not just said by me, many have complained about it in the past
Same I wrote at the beginning - it's easier to blame the game for being imbalenced, that to admit the own incapability.
2nd: Top PVP shaman, oracle should be full con build always, that instant full heal spell has nothing to do with WIL or any other stat (With speaker triggered, wow even more broken)
CON gives you 50% of spellpower, that WIL would, but ok, lets imagine an scholar on full-CON build. He has a lot of HP, lot of MDef and enought spellpower to heal, but he will literally have no DMG. So what's overpowered in this build?
3rd: You are not eligible to judge others whether they are right or not, when you are inexperienced, and if you playing in EU server a place that is far less competitive than N.A, YOU SHOULD KNOW YOUR PLACE THEN
Did you play on EU or you also become the information by a friend, how competative EU-server is? :ROFLMAO: You a a noob that can't play his class and gets defeated oneshot by every healer - thats what you said. So learn to play you class, while you should reflect where your place is.
PPS: Yup, we are talking about the same game, and I assume you are play in that easy server, when I say healer can easily hit 20k hp (W/O any food buff), or even above at this stage, T2, boy. It is because I see those players everyday. And there is at least 5 or more in N.A currently. Including one of my decent healer friend and few from top Kr guild.
I assume you have no clue what you are speaking about and just repeating what every loser says, who get owned by healers, because his gear is **** or he can't play his class. You don't even know how HP of a character is calculated and think 1% more of CON gives you automaticaly 20k HP :ROFLMAO: But at least let us ask the NA-scholars:

OH MIGHTY SCHOLARS OF THE NA SERVER SHOW ME A SCREENSHOT WITH YOUR 20K HP W/O BUFFS(especially the karza buff) SO I CAN RECOGNIZE YOUR SUPERIORITY.

P.S. @PlayingMyLastMMOs this should not be a problem for you to provide such a screenshot since you said, you have a "decent healer friend" with this values. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

It appears almost all of the scholar's high damage skills can be cast while moving.
This is not exactly correct - oracle has such skills, not every scholar, and this skills also have 12 sec cooldown. Cleric for example have no "strong" dps skills at all and shamane have one "strong" dps skill.
Actually I would like to have more dynamic fight - if nearly all skills could be casted while moving by every class - for example mage has nearly no dmg skills to cast while moving, may be the Devs will make it more dynamic in the future but this is difficult without complete rebalancing. If you look from other perspektive - oracle gets no dmg stats from subclass, while one of the archer subclasses gets 250 critrate AND 250 crtidmg.
 

Pandalicious

Astellian
May 31, 2019
713
357
63
21
@Freggel You have to admit there is one thing you said, that is not correct, that probably cause some people to assume scholars were absolutely overpowered:

You are not running the dungeons as healer, if you run them with this stats like on screenshot - you are on full DD-build.


It seems you are playing not the same game as me, where you can have 20k HP as healer and make dmg :unsure:
How it works in Astrellia:
As scholar:
  • you have 235 CON default, this gives you round about 2050 HP
  • with 25% you will have 297 CON ~ 2550 HP
  • with 30% you will have 306 CON ~ 2750 HP
Take Freggels stats as example, his screenshot shows that he have 445 CON (=306 + 149) ~ 4150 HP. So if he would have 25% instead of 30% on CON, he would only have ~200 HP less.
If you not understanding how Freggel got 8501 HP if 445 CON only gives him ~ 4150 HP:
  • CON ~ 4150 HP
  • treasures ~ 1040 HP
  • AGI ~ 850 HP
  • STR ~ 300 HP
  • INT ~ 1500 HP
  • WIS ~ 700 HP
    • SUMM ~ 8500 HP (as we see on screenshot)
In every MMORPG:
  • in 1v1 PvP: a character that can heal himself has advantages vs character that can't - Why? - because every damage healer causes to non-healer brings healer near to his win, but to kill a healer you have to take his whole HP down, without that he heal himselft up.
  • in solo PvE: the most problem of healing characters is to do enought dmg (for example to go through a dungeon in short time), if healer is doing enought dmg, so time is not a problem anymore, obliviosly he can easier do every dungeon, because he can heal himself.
But why is it overpowered? If you compare characters with same gear niveau:
  • as DD-only character you are still doing more DMG as Scholar
  • as Scholar on DD-build you are still healing less, than fullheal scholar (or/and has less defence)
  • as Scholar you have nearly no real AoE DMG
DD-classes has also their advantages like dmg-buffs, cc, aoe, aoe-cc, survival skills etc.

With top gear every class has a build so you could run every solo dungeons. With warrior and scholar you have to be on DD-build, or you will run out of time. It is wrong to assume scholars are overpowered just because someone shows here, how you could do this dungeons with a scholar, and someone else can't do the same with a DD.
Why scholar are overpowered? Well , let's see:

- very tanky because some of them actually do build CON since it also gives Spellpower (should be changed)
- a healer
- deal a lot of dmg and have a lot of cc, be it hard or soft cc

If scholars were the most squishy pimps running around that you can 1 shot easier than most mages they wouldnt be overpowered.
Mages for example are balanced bc a) you can 1 shot them (well 99% of them at least) and b) they dont heal. They only have cc and damage. Same goes for Archers and Sins.
 

Ferara

Astellian
May 6, 2020
134
77
28
Why scholar are overpowered? Well , let's see:

- very tanky because some of them actually do build CON since it also gives Spellpower (should be changed)
- a healer
- deal a lot of dmg and have a lot of cc, be it hard or soft cc

If scholars were the most squishy pimps running around that you can 1 shot easier than most mages they wouldnt be overpowered.
Any class can be overpower if you build it right but yea healer is the easiest one to build super strong you don't even need legendary avalon treasure to be OP
 

Pandalicious

Astellian
May 31, 2019
713
357
63
21
Any class can be overpower if you build it right but yea healer is the easiest one to build super strong you don't even need legendary avalon treasure to be OP
and yet another reason why the legendary anti cc needs removal. You can legit not kill a healer with more than 10 IQ if he has it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ferara

Terala

Astellian
May 22, 2020
478
269
63
Why scholar are overpowered? Well , let's see:

- very tanky because some of them actually do build CON since it also gives Spellpower (should be changed)
- a healer
- deal a lot of dmg and have a lot of cc, be it hard or soft cc
however, you're first and you're last point directly oppose each other
if the healer do build con, he gains live and spellpower ... but in return he looses his dmg

the same is true in the opposite direction, if he goes on dmg he has to sacrivice live and spellpower for it

so these two things stand in direct opposition of each other


and a healer heals, :drama: , yes ... that's the core nature of a healer

but avalon [and thus the zender] are not won by healing ... but rather by doing lots of dmg on static stones ...
and what classes are best for that ? ? ?

ontop of that healer has no real aoe, can't pull the enemies into the own group, doesn't have rapidfire/speaker insta meteors, can't hide and pick a single target to downburst out of a group etc etc pp ... each class should have it's strong points and each class should have it's weak points ... that's a good system if you'd ask me

[Edit : with the event mobs, my absolutely un(der)geared assasin is nearly as effective as my geared healer ... just my 2 cent on that topic]

and yet another reason why the legendary anti cc needs removal. You can legit not kill a healer with more than 10 IQ if he has it.
on that one however, i can 100% agree with you [and am saying that since their implementation]

you have 2 extremes here ...
the first extreme is the absolute cc defence, which simply realy is to strong
the other extreme however is the way it was before the treasure ... other classes with perma cc literally gave no chance to the healer to even ... do anything

cc, cc, cc, dead ... that's how it often went ... without even the chance to press a single button ... without even the chance, to press a single attack or heal between these cc's

and in my opinion extremes are never good ... and both of these extremes [absolute cc-defence as well as perma-cc possibility] are bad

my suggestion would be, to remove the absolute cc-defance treasure and in return redesign the cc system ...
once a cc hits a character, a buff could be applied to that character making a following cc harder to hit (for a short period of a few seconds) ... that would be a way better balanced system, if you'd ask me ...

another point would be, to actually make the avalon weekly-treasures somehow class specific and balance the pvp [independently of the pve] with such a system
 
Last edited:

Darkey

Astellian
Mar 23, 2020
69
70
18
Why scholar are overpowered? Well , let's see:

- very tanky because some of them actually do build CON since it also gives Spellpower (should be changed)
- a healer
- deal a lot of dmg and have a lot of cc, be it hard or soft cc

If scholars were the most squishy pimps running around that you can 1 shot easier than most mages they wouldnt be overpowered.
Mages for example are balanced bc a) you can 1 shot them (well 99% of them at least) and b) they dont heal. They only have cc and damage. Same goes for Archers and Sins.
Scholar can be very tanky OR have powerfull overheal OR deal a lot of dmg. You can not be everything at the same time. Ofcause most healer are trying to heal enoght and not be onehit, but this is not "overpowered" in my opinion. Avalon legendary anti cc treasure is OP for every class, but this is like win a jackpot - I never had one, and you only get it at the end of the week.
 

Darkey

Astellian
Mar 23, 2020
69
70
18
@Terala it's not easy to cc-lock a healer, there are 2 values working agains cc - status removal and status evasion. The are not many mmorpgs that have at least one value to work against cc, but here you have two. If you could not cc-lock a heal, dps need so much more dmg, to kill a heal while he is healing himself... than healer would be really overpowered :ROFLMAO:
 

Terala

Astellian
May 22, 2020
478
269
63
If you could not cc-lock a heal, dps need so much more dmg, to kill a heal while he is healing himself... than healer would be really overpowered
and if you can cc lock a heal, the heal is death without even getting the possibility, to press a single button ...
you see the problem there ?
 

Terala

Astellian
May 22, 2020
478
269
63
Everyone dies sometimes?^^
which brings me back to my suggestion,

it's not to give cc-immunity [for example in the form of treasures, like it's now]
but to add a (stacking) buff when cc'ed, which makes a following cc harder to hit

so you would still get cc'ed once ... you'd still have the chance to get cc'ed twice ...
but the more cc's you'd get in a row, the lower the possibility, to get another one

that would lead to cc's [and thus the downburst while incapable] still being possible (especially the first few) while at the same time reducec the possibility on perma-cc-lock
 
Last edited:

Darkey

Astellian
Mar 23, 2020
69
70
18
which brings me back to my suggestion,
So we are speaking about the question are scholars currently OP or not and you suggest to make them OP, by making everyone uncontrolable? I dont think this is a good suggestion :ROFLMAO: